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Thread started 05 Mar 2012 (Monday) 21:06
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5d3 Critics...

 
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Mar 05, 2012 21:57 |  #16

Invertalon wrote in post #14032358 (external link)
Honestly, after the sticker shock I feel it is a fair price.

Here is my breakdown:

1.) Flagship AF system, not just the 7D system everybody was hoping for. I don't think people expected the 1DX AF system, I surely didn't.

2.) 6FPS now, exactly what people wanted. More FPS. Perfect amount IMO.

3.) No more MP... And they did exactly that. They kept the same MP and improved on it. I did not want 30+ MP files. 22MP was plenty fine with me. I am very happy they stayed near the same.

4.) Even better ISO performance... Now I know this is still TBD... But I have a feeling with native ISO up through 25,600 that we will see at least a stop, or more in RAW performance.

5.) Duel CF/SD cards... I did not expect this and I find it pretty awesome. My girlfriend has like eight 8GB SD cards that I could use if I ever run out of space on a trip. Or I can write instant small jpeg's for her that she can take right away after a trip. Very cool feature, to me.

6.) Better weathersealing... Another big benefit many people wanted, but now people want to complain its not up to 1D standards, yet I am sure 90% of those people who complain probably never had water touch their cameras. I took my 7D into a downpour and it was just fine. I want to know how many people actually "use" the weathersealing. Its now better then ever, just under 1DX sealing. Good enough for me.

7.) Better LCD... Better chimping features (instant 100% view, etc...) :P

8.) Better video, now with 720 at 60FPS and higher quality in full HD. Easier to use, better interface, etc...

9.) Multi-point microadjust... Very nice.

Honestly looking at all the improvements, the price is not that outrageous. Sure I wish it was $3000 or less, but in the end I plan to have and own this camera for a long time. I was complaining about the price before until I really sat back and looked at the feature set. I think you get a loaded camera with great feature set without paying $7000 for the 1Dx.

I just hope that the camera delivers what is promised. I have no doubt it will.

I couldn't agree more!

It's price at what I thought it would be.

Thank God they didn't increase the pixel count. It's going to be interesting to see the reviews once the camera is out in the field for a couple of months.


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Erik ­ S. ­ Klein
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Mar 05, 2012 21:59 |  #17

Invertalon wrote in post #14032358 (external link)
Honestly looking at all the improvements, the price is not that outrageous.

That's not the problem.

The problem is that the competition produced an equal or better unit for a substantially lower price.

All of the improvements are great, as is the camera itself, but in the marketplace it's not enough for too much money.

As Rick said, you can blame Nikon for it but you can also blame Canon for ignoring what Nikon did...


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jdizzle
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Mar 05, 2012 22:00 |  #18

I'm actually applauding Canon for giving what the people want. The 5D III has it all. AF, improved ISO, etc. I'll pick one up and shoot it along with my D800E. I win! ;)




  
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Invertalon
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Mar 05, 2012 22:07 |  #19

Erik,

But how can you say Nikon produced something better for less? At this point, nobody really knows. I guess it just depends what you want in a camera body I suppose. Both will be excellent choices, depending on your preferences.

I am not going to switch a system over $500 when I feel Canon's product is superior (on paper) for me. The 5D3 appears to be superior to what I was expecting, therefor I thought it was worth the price to pre-order. I am sure the Nikon will be amazing, in different ways.

jdizzle hit it on the head.... Canon put out a product everybody wanted... Just with a slightly higher price then expected... But I find it funny those with $10,000+ in lenses complain about a few hundred dollars in the end.


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Old ­ Baldy
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Mar 05, 2012 22:17 |  #20

Erik S. Klein wrote in post #14032446 (external link)
That's not the problem.

The problem is that the competition produced an equal or better unit for a substantially lower price.

Mr Major Assumption strikes again....


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Erik ­ S. ­ Klein
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Mar 05, 2012 22:20 |  #21

Invertalon wrote in post #14032513 (external link)
But how can you say Nikon produced something better for less? At this point, nobody really knows. I guess it just depends what you want in a camera body I suppose. Both will be excellent choices, depending on your preferences.

Yes and no.

This is all re-hash, of course, but Nikon provided their top tier AF and full weather sealing. Canon gimped both.

Nikon matched Canon on most other fronts (dual cards, 100% view finder, etc.) came out ahead in video and resolution and fell behind in FPS.

Canon is likely to have somewhat better high-ISO performance but, as you said, we don't know that yet.

If that's true, then overall the absolute best Canon can hope for is a functional tie and yet they are charging $500 more.

Yes, Canon created an excellent camera and answered most requests. In a vacuum that would be enough and might even justify the price.

In the market as it stands it's not enough and the price comes out high.

Canon junkies like us will make the buy regardless (I'm staying with Canon but have a 1Dx on pre-order) but those new to the full-frame DSLR market are, IMO, going to lean heavily towards the Nikon offering because of the features they offer that Canon does not..

That is, of course, unless Canon blows the doors off of Nikon for IQ and ISO performance.

I really don't see that happening but I'd be overjoyed to eat my words...


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Mar 05, 2012 22:24 |  #22

jdizzle wrote in post #14032453 (external link)
I'm actually applauding Canon for giving what the people want. The 5D III has it all. AF, improved ISO, etc. I'll pick one up and shoot it along with my D800E. I win! ;)

go to hell.


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Mar 05, 2012 22:26 as a reply to  @ post 14032193 |  #23

For those that require top-of-the line AF I can understand why this looks like a great camera "on paper". As a 5DII owner that did not have a problem with the AF I am a bit disappointed. It does not seem to be much of an upgrade "on paper". If it truly has a 1 or 2 stop ISO improvement then I might be a bit more excited. But if that increase is derived via In-camera jpg PP then it is not so impressive. I have NR software for that.

For me, the intro of the D800 raised my expectations a bit. "On paper" the D800 looks to be a superior camera and it's $500 cheaper? 36mp? I know many here do not believe in the MP race, but I am not one of them. At the time of it's introduction there was not a Canon with more MP than the 5DII and most would agree that the image quality surpassed it's less MP predecessors.

There are lot's of photographers that require great AF. The first that comes to mind are birders. And if I were a hardcore birder it seems to me that the best of both worlds would be a camera with superior AF and the ultimate in crop-ability. AKA the D800. I would like to here what the birders think about this.

I have too much invested in Canon to jump ship in the near future. But if someone who wanted to go full frame asked my opinion, I think I would recommend the D800 over the 5DIII (if I had to go by what I see "on paper"). Of course, the real world results might eventually bring a different conclusion.

I'm speaking strictly as a hobbyist that does not tax the AF of the 5DII. And I know there are other upgrades to the 5DIII besides the ones I mentioned that may be important to some. But overall I can't help but feel that canon seems to be slowly but surely slipping behind Nikon, and I'm not seeing the "leap frogging" of the past. And personally I believe at $3500 Canon has grossly miscalculated the sweet spot for optimal sales. IMO it should be something less than $3000. We will see...

BTW: I am VERY happy with my 5DII so my opinion is biased ;)


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Mar 05, 2012 22:26 |  #24

I can't wait for it. selling my 5d2 for this bad boy. It's everything I wanted over the 5d2, like the other people mentioned. However, IF you compare it to the d800, you might feel it's a little more on the expensive side.

does anyone know if the 5d3 can finally do auto iso in manual mode??? and can you designate a minimum SS like on the nikons?


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jdizzle
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Mar 05, 2012 22:28 |  #25

tete wrote in post #14032599 (external link)
go to hell.

Why? :lol: You don't like the 5D III? Tough on you. ;)




  
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Invertalon
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Mar 05, 2012 22:30 |  #26

What stuff did Nikon leave out of the D800 or whatever it is, that is in their flagship body? Just curious. Because I feel you could probably argue against that and how they could of done so much more. There has to be things removed to distinguish the mid from the high end.

I am sure the weathersealing on the 5D3 will be plenty adequate for 90%+ of those who will actually risk it to weather. If you are that extreme in shooting conditions, you will probably own a 1Dx.

As far as AF goes, there is no tests that prove the 5D3 is "dumbed down" of the 1Dx. It still had a dedicated processor 5x faster then that of the 1DIV. It does lack the 1Dx facial tracking or whatever it is, but is that *really* going to cause any significant difference in 99% of shooting? I think it will perform near identical and may just be hype more then anything, or a really small difference in AF ability.

The 5D3 AF *should* be superior to that of the flagship camera from the previous generation (1DIV). That is a pretty significant jump in itself, even if it is a "dumbed down" version from the 1Dx. From one of the most basic AF systems to the most advanced Canon offers.

I don't know... It just seems most of these cutbacks are minimal. They have to distinguish the lines at some point. They could of just put 7D AF in and charged $2800... But people would wonder why they didn't do more and would be willing to pay more.

I think the "cutbacks" are non-issue. We will really see in the end when both cameras are really compared. Who knows, maybe the "dumbed down" 5D3 AF will be superior to the Nikon flagship AF. We just don't know yet.

Speculation is always fun, though. We can hope Canon dominates in all so we can laugh at the Nikon people. But it may be the other way around, who knows. It will be an exciting month or so... :p


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ilumo
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Mar 05, 2012 22:32 |  #27

Erik S. Klein wrote in post #14032574 (external link)
Yes and no.

This is all re-hash, of course, but Nikon provided their top tier AF and full weather sealing. Canon gimped both.

Nikon matched Canon on most other fronts (dual cards, 100% view finder, etc.) came out ahead in video and resolution and fell behind in FPS.

Canon is likely to have somewhat better high-ISO performance but, as you said, we don't know that yet.

If that's true, then overall the absolute best Canon can hope for is a functional tie and yet they are charging $500 more.

Yes, Canon created an excellent camera and answered most requests. In a vacuum that would be enough and might even justify the price.

In the market as it stands it's not enough and the price comes out high.

Canon junkies like us will make the buy regardless (I'm staying with Canon but have a 1Dx on pre-order) but those new to the full-frame DSLR market are, IMO, going to lean heavily towards the Nikon offering because of the features they offer that Canon does not..

That is, of course, unless Canon blows the doors off of Nikon for IQ and ISO performance.

I really don't see that happening but I'd be overjoyed to eat my words...

Nikon's "top tier" AF only has 15 cross types, whereas the 5d3 has 41 cross type... I would say that's pretty impressive. now how that correlates to real world perf, who knows, but "on paper", canon's AF seems more impressive...


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jdizzle
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Mar 05, 2012 22:33 |  #28

Invertalon wrote in post #14032629 (external link)
What stuff did Nikon leave out of the D800 or whatever it is, that is in their flagship body? Just curious. Because I feel you could probably argue against that and how they could of done so much more. There has to be things removed to distinguish the mid from the high end.

I am sure the weathersealing on the 5D3 will be plenty adequate for 90%+ of those who will actually risk it to weather. If you are that extreme in shooting conditions, you will probably own a 1Dx.

As far as AF goes, there is no tests that prove the 5D3 is "dumbed down" of the 1Dx. It still had a dedicated processor 5x faster then that of the 1DIV. It does lack the 1Dx facial tracking or whatever it is, but is that *really* going to cause any significant difference in 99% of shooting? I think it will perform near identical.

The 5D3 AF is going to be superior to that of the flagship camera from the previous generation (1DIV). That is a pretty significant jump in itself, even if it is a "dumbed down" version from the 1Dx.

I don't know... It just seems most of these cutbacks are minimal. They have to distinguish the lines at some point. They could of just put 7D AF in and charged $2800... But people would wonder why they didn't do more and would be willing to pay more.

I think the "cutbacks" are non-issue. We will really see in the end when both cameras are really compared. Who knows, maybe the "dumbed down" 5D3 AF will be superior to the Nikon flagship AF. We just don't know yet.

Speculation is always fun, though. We can hope Canon dominates in all so we can laugh at the Nikon people. But it may be the other way around, who knows. It will be an exciting month or so... :p

Personally, I'm not picky about little things. Just give me manual mode, ISO, SS, aperture, and a remote release. ;) Let the photos do the talking. :cool:




  
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jdizzle
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Mar 05, 2012 22:34 |  #29

ilumo wrote in post #14032635 (external link)
Nikon's "top tier" AF only has 15 cross types, whereas the 5d3 has 41 cross type... I would say that's pretty impressive. now how that correlates to real world perf, who knows, but "on paper", canon's AF seems more impressive...

I'm not worried about it. Gone are the days when you don't have to focus recompose. ;)




  
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pbelarge
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Mar 05, 2012 22:36 |  #30

Invertalon wrote in post #14032358 (external link)
Honestly, after the sticker shock I feel it is a fair price.

Here is my breakdown:

1.) Flagship AF system, not just the 7D system everybody was hoping for. I don't think people expected the 1DX AF system, I surely didn't.

2.) 6FPS now, exactly what people wanted. More FPS. Perfect amount IMO.

3.) No more MP... And they did exactly that. They kept the same MP and improved on it. I did not want 30+ MP files. 22MP was plenty fine with me. I am very happy they stayed near the same.

4.) Even better ISO performance... Now I know this is still TBD... But I have a feeling with native ISO up through 25,600 that we will see at least a stop, or more in RAW performance.

5.) Duel CF/SD cards... I did not expect this and I find it pretty awesome. My girlfriend has like eight 8GB SD cards that I could use if I ever run out of space on a trip. Or I can write instant small jpeg's for her that she can take right away after a trip. Very cool feature, to me.

6.) Better weathersealing... Another big benefit many people wanted, but now people want to complain its not up to 1D standards, yet I am sure 90% of those people who complain probably never had water touch their cameras. I took my 7D into a downpour and it was just fine. I want to know how many people actually "use" the weathersealing. Its now better then ever, just under 1DX sealing. Good enough for me.

7.) Better LCD... Better chimping features (instant 100% view, etc...) :P

8.) Better video, now with 720 at 60FPS and higher quality in full HD. Easier to use, better interface, etc...

9.) Multi-point microadjust... Very nice.

Honestly looking at all the improvements, the price is not that outrageous. Sure I wish it was $3000 or less, but in the end I plan to have and own this camera for a long time. I was complaining about the price before until I really sat back and looked at the feature set. I think you get a loaded camera with great feature set without paying $7000 for the 1Dx.

I just hope that the camera delivers what is promised. I have no doubt it will.

Let me add a couple of items I believe are being overlooked.

1. Improved sensor - I am curious how much this and the Digic 5+ will work
2. Improved shutter - I especially like this feature
3. Improved bracketing - I love to bracket
4. Better ergonomics
5. Addition of some of the 7D buttons - I have the 7D and this will help me (it is all about me. :D)
6. Same battery - Again, all about me. ;)
7. Electronic Level - I cannot level to save my life...okay maybe sometimes I can.
8. Improved sensor self cleaning.
and the best feature
...a chick magnet, uh maybe, but my wife would be kind of pissed if this were really true. :D


just a few of my thoughts...
Pierre

  
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