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FORUMS General Gear Talk Computers 
Thread started 13 Mar 2012 (Tuesday) 16:57
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Comment on new PC build?

 
tim
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Mar 13, 2012 19:37 |  #16

My PC at full load (100% CPU and 5 disks running) consumes 120W. Get a good brand of PS, 300-400W is enough, even for most gamers. There's no harm buying a higher capacity PS though.


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Snydremark
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Mar 13, 2012 19:38 |  #17

Yes; PS is covered...shouldn't need to change up the PS for quite some time.


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Saxi
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Mar 13, 2012 19:57 |  #18

tim wrote in post #14081278 (external link)
My PC at full load (100% CPU and 5 disks running) consumes 120W. Get a good brand of PS, 300-400W is enough, even for most gamers. There's no harm buying a higher capacity PS though.

Power supplies are not rated based just on their input from the wall. The power supply rating is based on combined of all the rail voltages, but more and more is going to the 12V line (which is only fraction of the rated voltage). You also have to deal with efficiency but it sounds like you measured the wall input so that's not a big concern as the rating will be less than what it actually pulls.

For a gamer, 300W-400W is pushing it and most likely would not work. It highly depends on the power supply though, as they do perform differently.

I wouldn't run less than 500W in any system that has decent hardware in it. You may get away with 400W, but I wouldn't touch anything less than 500W and I personally wouldn't go below 750W.

This is a good rule of thumb, but again I typically would recommend 750W 85%+ efficiency power supplies for anyone planning on doing anything serious with their computer.

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You can use this calculator, but I don't think it is completely up to date and I am not sure if it even still works.

http://extreme.outervi​sion.com/psucalculator​lite.jsp (external link)

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quiksquirrel
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Mar 13, 2012 20:06 |  #19

tim wrote in post #14081278 (external link)
My PC at full load (100% CPU and 5 disks running) consumes 120W. Get a good brand of PS, 300-400W is enough, even for most gamers. There's no harm buying a higher capacity PS though.

I'm guessing that PSU does not have to fuel as much as some. It is after all quite simple to build a low drain PC.

On the other hand. If I put a 400W PSU in any of mine (except the server), they would not start.
Trust me.. There is a good reason why gaming rigs (and similar high power systems) are commonly running on 1000W+
I'm currently at 1200W and that will likely not support the next upgrade.




  
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Mar 13, 2012 21:48 as a reply to  @ quiksquirrel's post |  #20

I just recently built a new rig since i was still running an old Intel P4 2.4 C with 2gig of ram and it could not run the latest intense video & photo rendering programs. The below rig has absolutely no bottlenecks running CS5 extended or the video programs. I do no gaming but bear in mind a decent video card is a requirement to run some of these Adobe programs. The grandkids are the ones wanting to use my new pc for gaming !

Case: CM Storm Enforcer Midtower/ USB3.0
CPU : i7-2600K
Mobo: Intel DZ68BC Extreme
Ram : Corsair Vengeance pc1600/ 16gb
Video: EVGA Nvidia GTX 560ti
HDD: SSD 120GB Intel 520 series & 1.5 TB WD Caviar Black
Pwr.Supply: Rosewill Capstone 650watt Gold Rated 80+
CPU Cooler: CM Hyper 212 EVO

Fans: 200mm front intake, 200mm top exhaust, 120mm rear exhaust
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ASUS DRW-24B1ST 24X DVD Burner

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AFT USB 3.0 Multi-Card reader 5.25 Bay

OS: Windows 7 64 bit

Regards, Ron ;)


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tim
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Mar 13, 2012 22:00 |  #21

quiksquirrel wrote in post #14081459 (external link)
I'm guessing that PSU does not have to fuel as much as some. It is after all quite simple to build a low drain PC.

On the other hand. If I put a 400W PSU in any of mine (except the server), they would not start.
Trust me.. There is a good reason why gaming rigs (and similar high power systems) are commonly running on 1000W+
I'm currently at 1200W and that will likely not support the next upgrade.

The current per rail thing may be relevant.

I run a 2600K, 3 hard drives, 2 SSDs, a couple of little add in cards, and a GeForce 520 GPU, so it's hardly a small system. I think my PSU is rated at 500W from memory.

Why do you think your 1200W PSU won't support your next build? I think that should provide enough power for 3-4 PCs, unless they're all running big gaming graphics cards.


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Saxi
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Mar 13, 2012 22:01 |  #22

quiksquirrel wrote in post #14081459 (external link)
I'm guessing that PSU does not have to fuel as much as some. It is after all quite simple to build a low drain PC.

On the other hand. If I put a 400W PSU in any of mine (except the server), they would not start.
Trust me.. There is a good reason why gaming rigs (and similar high power systems) are commonly running on 1000W+
I'm currently at 1200W and that will likely not support the next upgrade.

Completely agree.
I have an 850W right now with the top of the line video card (7970), I don't have a lot of room on my PS, but it is a high end one and the 12V lines are huge. Since I never use SLI/Crossfire, I should be good, but I do have 9 USB devices, 3-4 platter disks, and 4 SSD drives. When I fill out the estimater, I come up with 725W and that's using an older video card since they don't have my video card.

So even 850W is pushing it for my PC, and I couldn't even crossfire if I wanted to.


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Saxi
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Mar 13, 2012 22:07 |  #23

tim wrote in post #14082269 (external link)
The current per rail thing may be relevant.

I run a 2600K, 3 hard drives, 2 SSDs, a couple of little add in cards, and a GeForce 520 GPU, so it's hardly a small system. I think my PSU is rated at 500W from memory.

Why do you think your 1200W PSU won't support your next build? I think that should provide enough power for 3-4 PCs, unless they're all running big gaming graphics cards.

I just ran up the specs for your machine in the estimator, I got 549W with your setup.

I assumed 5 USB, 1 firewire, and two PCI cards. It may vary a little bit, but you are pushing a 500W PS to the max. I suspect it is bigger, or your just sitting on the edge.

I highly doubt your rig is pulling 120W, the tests show just those components are much higher than that.


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tim
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Mar 13, 2012 22:22 |  #24

Saxi wrote in post #14082317 (external link)
I just ran up the specs for your machine in the estimator, I got 549W with your setup.

I assumed 5 USB, 1 firewire, and two PCI cards. It may vary a little bit, but you are pushing a 500W PS to the max. I suspect it is bigger, or your just sitting on the edge.

I highly doubt your rig is pulling 120W, the tests show just those components are much higher than that.

I put in actual specs and got a minimum PSU of 271W, recommended 350W. I take the point that the amperage on the 12V rail is most important, not the total capacity of the PSU.

Buying a good quality PSU is important, but 1200W is overkill for most people, as is 800W. Then again it doesn't hurt so there's no real harm getting one.


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Saxi
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Mar 13, 2012 22:37 |  #25

tim wrote in post #14082401 (external link)
I put in actual specs and got a minimum PSU of 271W, recommended 350W. I take the point that the amperage on the 12V rail is most important, not the total capacity of the PSU.

Buying a good quality PSU is important, but 1200W is overkill for most people, as is 800W. Then again it doesn't hurt so there's no real harm getting one.

Gamers will push it much harder, as they max their video cards, but I agree 1200 and 800 is overkill for "most people" but then again so is an iPad. If your picking out a power supply regardless of the specs, your not most people.


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LuLuTheMonk
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Mar 15, 2012 14:19 |  #26

If you are waiting on your tax return, you may consider waiting for Ivy Bridge with HD 4000 integrated GPU. Ivy Bridge review here. (external link) Something like the 3570k will be right up your alley. I would also recommend looking into the Intel 520 series SSDs.


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Snydremark
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Mar 15, 2012 14:39 |  #27

Thanks, Lulu; I'll check those out.


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Mar 15, 2012 14:53 |  #28

tim wrote in post #14082269 (external link)
The current per rail thing may be relevant.

I run a 2600K, 3 hard drives, 2 SSDs, a couple of little add in cards, and a GeForce 520 GPU, so it's hardly a small system. I think my PSU is rated at 500W from memory.

Why do you think your 1200W PSU won't support your next build? I think that should provide enough power for 3-4 PCs, unless they're all running big gaming graphics cards.

A lot of people grossly misunderstand the actual power required for a system to run.

In any case for the build recommended in this thread a good quality 500W supply would be more than sufficient, even if a reasonable video card were added later. I usually browse a few online resources, including this thread (external link) when I'm looking in to getting a new power supply. 500 watts from a good supply is better than 800 watts from a junk one. It'll happily run at any load with stable voltages and be less of a risk to your system's components. The initial spike in draw will tax a lot of lower quality supplies but sustained draw, even gaming, isn't usually as high as people thing it is unless they're somehow loading up two top end GPUs and their CPU simultaneously. That's something that you'll almost never fully see happen in practice. Even if something says it's pushing 100% usage doesn't mean it's driving your processor to its max, run a proper stress test if you want to see how much power it can use or how much heat it can really put out.

I'm running a Core 2 Quad overclocked about 20%, 8GB of RAM, 4-5 hard drives, 2 optical drives, a GTX 560Ti and a whole fleet of USB and Firewire powered devices off a 520 watt Corsair HX series supply that I've been using going on about five years now. I'll probably upgrade to something in the 650 watt range when I build my next system and repurpose this supply with my leftover components. Monitoring the total power consumption of my system on my battery backup, including the monitors connected to the battery backup doesn't even approach the 520 watts the computer's supply alone is rated at, even when running the most demanding applications.

I'm not finding a huge need to upgrade this system until I'm pushing more pixels through it. Once I get a new camera (whether that's a 5D Mark III or something else) will be when I replace most of the rest of the components. I stopped doing whole builds about four years ago. Fortunately enough has stayed reasonably constant that I've been able to use a rolling upgrade cycle. The AGP to PCI-X transition was the last time I had to do a complete rebuild from scratch.

Be careful with the SSDs you choose, I'm not familiar with the Plextor model. I've been running a 300GB Velociraptor for a few years now and I'm not sure what I'd get next. My confidence in SSDs is not terribly high at this point but some are much more reliable than others. I have heard nothing about Plextors, which concerns me.

Also, if you can use the on board graphics and get what you need from that, I wouldn't buy a throwaway discrete GPU unless you plan to run more monitors than the board has support for or plan to game.


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Saxi
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Mar 15, 2012 15:18 |  #29

Colorblinded wrote in post #14092388 (external link)
A lot of people grossly misunderstand the actual power required for a system to run.

In any case for the build recommended in this thread a good quality 500W supply would be more than sufficient, even if a reasonable video card were added later. I usually browse a few online resources, including this thread (external link) when I'm looking in to getting a new power supply. 500 watts from a good supply is better than 800 watts from a junk one. It'll happily run at any load with stable voltages and be less of a risk to your system's components. The initial spike in draw will tax a lot of lower quality supplies but sustained draw, even gaming, isn't usually as high as people thing it is unless they're somehow loading up two top end GPUs and their CPU simultaneously. That's something that you'll almost never fully see happen in practice. Even if something says it's pushing 100% usage doesn't mean it's driving your processor to its max, run a proper stress test if you want to see how much power it can use or how much heat it can really put out.

I'm running a Core 2 Quad overclocked about 20%, 8GB of RAM, 4-5 hard drives, 2 optical drives, a GTX 560Ti and a whole fleet of USB and Firewire powered devices off a 520 watt Corsair HX series supply that I've been using going on about five years now. I'll probably upgrade to something in the 650 watt range when I build my next system and repurpose this supply with my leftover components. Monitoring the total power consumption of my system on my battery backup, including the monitors connected to the battery backup doesn't even approach the 520 watts the computer's supply alone is rated at, even when running the most demanding applications.

I'm not finding a huge need to upgrade this system until I'm pushing more pixels through it. Once I get a new camera (whether that's a 5D Mark III or something else) will be when I replace most of the rest of the components. I stopped doing whole builds about four years ago. Fortunately enough has stayed reasonably constant that I've been able to use a rolling upgrade cycle. The AGP to PCI-X transition was the last time I had to do a complete rebuild from scratch.

Be careful with the SSDs you choose, I'm not familiar with the Plextor model. I've been running a 300GB Velociraptor for a few years now and I'm not sure what I'd get next. My confidence in SSDs is not terribly high at this point but some are much more reliable than others. I have heard nothing about Plextors, which concerns me.

Also, if you can use the on board graphics and get what you need from that, I wouldn't buy a throwaway discrete GPU unless you plan to run more monitors than the board has support for or plan to game.

I agree completely with the difference in a typical power supply and what would be considered a "quality" power supply. There is a dramatic difference between them. If you look for a high efficiency power supply, you will typically save the money in power bills over the course of 2 years to make up for the difference in price. Generally high efficiency (85%+) power supplies are "quality" power supplies. Looking at brands like ThermalTake Tough Power and Corsair are good choices. Most people (outside of hard core gamers and power users) don't even have to think about this.

As for SSD drives, I own 4 Corsair Force GT and love them. They are much more reliable/faster than OCZ which tend to have a lot of problems. Sandforce controllers have mixed reviews, but I have had no problems and I am very aggressive on hard disks.

They also have the benefit of being cheaper than most other current generation SSD drives. A 240GB 550MB read/write Corsair Force GT is only $329 right now. I'm going to be ordering another one soon.


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Snydremark
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Mar 15, 2012 15:21 |  #30

Yeah; I'm hoping to not have to do a complete rebuild again for some time. The power supply I have should be more than capable of running the gear I'm currently planning on; and Plextor's been around for quite some time. They aren't the fastest/highest performing gear out there, but they've always made rock solid stuff that's performed well enough for me.

I'm still contemplating the discrete GPU, simply because I *do* need to check out the latest/greatest games from time time to time, for work...so I might as well have it while it fits in the budget.


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