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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 29 Mar 2012 (Thursday) 23:50
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Is the saying "better glass before bodies" starting to become less relevant?

 
jeffreynmandy
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Mar 29, 2012 23:50 |  #1

I totally agree that good glass should come before a really expensive body. But now owning a 5d mkiii and a 7d before that. I'm kind of rethinking the idea. With the new 5d you can get close to canons top of the line image quality without spending thousands more on 1d's or 1ds's.

Just say a friend has just inherited a sum of money and has always wanted to get Into photography. His budget is $5000. counting New prices on bhphoto, my recommendations would be between the two:

1: 7d body, 24-70mm f2.8l, and 70-200mm f2.8l IS ii

2: 5d mark iii kit with 24-105mm f4l IS, and 70-200mm f4L

They both roughly come out to $5000. You get better glass if you go with the 7d, but you get much better image quality and performance with the 5diii. Add in that the lenses you get with the 5d are really great lenses also. Having had all of this equipment before (the 70-200 was mk1 though). I would have to recommend the 5d package. Either one would be fantastic to own, but I give the edge to the 5d. The clean ISO makes up the difference on the faster lenses I think.

It's just my opinion that things change with time. I think middle of the line glass on a higher end body can outperform A 60d/7d with top of the line glass. And with canon starting to embed limitations on the older lenses when attached to newer bodies, it only makes my idea more logical. No one is going to buy 5diii and only have a 50mm 1.8, they are going to go with a reasonable lens. And I think a nice reasonably priced lens on a 5diii would outperform a 7d with a high end L lens.

What are others thoughts on the matter? I know this is a touchy subject and I'm not saying either one is wrong. I would smile:) for days if some one gave me either of those setups. I just want to hear others thoughts on the subject.

This is just a scenario. I'm talking about a nice setup to cover the basic ranges.


Ever changing.

  
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BryantFC
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Mar 29, 2012 23:54 |  #2

besides FPS and the crop factor, why not consider the 5DII? he'll have about 3K worth to buy a bunch of fantastic lenses for that body.


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jeffreynmandy
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Mar 30, 2012 00:00 |  #3

BryantFC wrote in post #14178834 (external link)
besides FPS and the crop factor, why not consider the 5DII? he'll have about 3K worth to buy a bunch of fantastic lenses for that body.

That's true you could swap out the 7d for the 5dii for a little extra in the top set up. But you'd have a less well rounded camera. I guess it would depend on what they would like to shoot with it.


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Polarized
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Mar 30, 2012 00:03 |  #4
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Yeah eventually you need a nice camera that you LOVE shooting with and has high resolution.




  
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MakisM1
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Mar 30, 2012 00:13 |  #5

If the friend who wants to get into photography, wants to get into BIF photography, he is SOL with your second recommendation.

Similarly, if he is into portraits, he might wish to have something faster than f4.

If he is interested in macro... well, you get my drift!

Bottom line, there is a wide variety of problems with a wide variety of solutions unless money is no object.

Be careful. If all you got is a hammer, everything looks more and more like a nail!:lol:

The basis of 'Glass before body' is to address the issue of people ALREADY in photography, with a limited kit, chasing after bodies as a solution of real and perceived problems


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LowriderS10
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Mar 30, 2012 00:20 |  #6

Not really a fair comparison, especially where your long lenses are concerned.

Yeah, the 5D3 is a great body, but the 7D is no slouch. And the 70-200 II has what...4 stops of IS plus one stop of optics...that's a FIVE STOP ADVANTAGE (granted, only on still subjects)...that's a massive difference. That means you can shoot at ISO 100 instead of ISO 3200!! And then there's the extra bokeh, etc afforded by the 70-200 II.


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jeffreynmandy
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Mar 30, 2012 00:34 |  #7

LowriderS10 wrote in post #14178916 (external link)
Not really a fair comparison, especially where your long lenses are concerned.

Yeah, the 5D3 is a great body, but the 7D is no slouch. And the 70-200 II has what...4 stops of IS plus one stop of optics...that's a FIVE STOP ADVANTAGE (granted, only on still subjects)...that's a massive difference. That means you can shoot at ISO 100 instead of ISO 3200!! And then there's the extra bokeh, etc afforded by the 70-200 II.

This is my theory, I haven't been able to try it yet. I think the 5diii would do great at 200mm f4, ISO upto 12,800 if needed. Shutter speeds should able to be high enough to freeze action. Like at a night time high school football game or similar.


Ever changing.

  
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xarqi
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Mar 30, 2012 00:51 |  #8

The rationale for "glass before body" is that lenses are far more durable and are seldom rendered obsolete by the release of a similar lens of much greater potential.

Yes, it does happen, from time to time, but changes are usually evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

However, now that lenses are not merely optical/mechanical devices, that durability is suffering as the introduction of electronics has created a weakness as far as longevity is concerned.

To that extent, yes, I'd agree that the "glass before body" adage is becoming less relevant, but it is still basically sound.




  
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Charlie
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Mar 30, 2012 01:17 |  #9

Image quality would be very close, if not the same with the given scenario.


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Charlie
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Mar 30, 2012 01:20 |  #10

Change out the 7d with the 5dc and the 5dc would beat out the 5d3 in most scenarios.


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themadman
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Mar 30, 2012 01:22 |  #11

I would take the first kit over the second kit.


Now if I had it my way, I'd have both kits... oh wait... I do.. :lol:


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themadman
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Mar 30, 2012 01:22 |  #12

chardog wrote in post #14179156 (external link)
Change out the 7d with the 5dc and the 5dc would beat out the 5d3 in most scenarios.

I am now curious in what scenarios (most? really?) would the 5Dc beat out the 5D3...


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Charlie
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Mar 30, 2012 01:27 |  #13

themadman wrote in post #14179165 (external link)
I am now curious in what scenarios (most? really?) would the 5Dc beat out the 5D3...

Having the ability to shoot at f2.8 and under 1600. It will be able to produce more pleasing bokeh. At f4, it will be sharper in the 24-70 range.


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themadman
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Mar 30, 2012 02:18 |  #14

chardog wrote in post #14179176 (external link)
Having the ability to shoot at f2.8 and under 1600. It will be able to produce more pleasing bokeh. At f4, it will be sharper in the 24-70 range.

Oh, you are talking about the 5Dc + the lenses in option 1. Gotcha. I did not interpret your initial statement correctly.


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midget
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Mar 30, 2012 02:19 |  #15

jeffreynmandy wrote in post #14178976 (external link)
This is my theory, I haven't been able to try it yet. I think the 5diii would do great at 200mm f4, ISO upto 12,800 if needed. Shutter speeds should able to be high enough to freeze action. Like at a night time high school football game or similar.

the 7d does afford one more reach, which could be important considering how short 200 will feel compared to the effective 320 the 7d has with the same 200mm focal length for football.


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Is the saying "better glass before bodies" starting to become less relevant?
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