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Thread started 09 Jan 2012 (Monday) 14:11
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5D MKIII vs D800

 
AngryCorgi
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Apr 05, 2012 14:52 |  #736

ilumo wrote in post #14215508 (external link)
Do you have any 100% crops of those? At 100% you can see the normal exposure shot retaining a lot more detail. the pushed shot actually loses a fair amount of the shadows.

Beyond 5EV pushes, you start losing detail. I don't have any ISO3200 vs 5EV pushes to show and don't have the camera anymmore, sadly. Of course, MOST of the lost detail is in the shadows. In reality, a 6EV push is not a practice one would follow to achieve nice prints. I shot a lot in aperture priority (outside) and -3EV bias. This left me very nice shots with lots of DR and no real noise penalty vs an ISO800 shot.


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AngryCorgi
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Apr 05, 2012 14:54 |  #737

jwcdds wrote in post #14215633 (external link)
I have reached the conclusion that Nikon D7000 makes THE BEST surveillance/security cameras. Look at the detail you can recover from seemingly complete dark photos. :)

:lol:...yeah right...

At base ISO, yeah, but between ISO400 and ISO12800, its got very similar DR and SNR to a 7D/60D. So just for shooting in low light, there isn't much difference.


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Shadowblade
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Apr 05, 2012 17:42 |  #738

AngryCorgi wrote in post #14215717 (external link)
Beyond 5EV pushes, you start losing detail. I don't have any ISO3200 vs 5EV pushes to show and don't have the camera anymmore, sadly. Of course, MOST of the lost detail is in the shadows. In reality, a 6EV push is not a practice one would follow to achieve nice prints. I shot a lot in aperture priority (outside) and -3EV bias. This left me very nice shots with lots of DR and no real noise penalty vs an ISO800 shot.

You'd rarely have to push this hard in practice. 3-4 stops at most, in the deepest shadows, will work with almost every scene, provided the highlights are exposed just short of clipping.




  
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Shadowblade
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Apr 05, 2012 17:50 |  #739

ilumo wrote in post #14214970 (external link)
i'll get some 5d3 tests on monday. I bet it will be more than 3 stops. I have a feeling we can push it a good 4-5 stops and still be able to "clean" it with some NR. I was able to push 5.x stops on a few images in previous pictures and it still retained good detail. I will have to see if the much better light in the most recent pictures here makes a difference in the noise.

Personally, I'd like to see a comparison sensor area for sensor area, not at 100% - that is, equalising for pixel density (we're using the D7000 as a surrogate for the D800, and the D800 and 5D3 have the same sensor size, so they're already equalised for sensor size). That way, we can see how the pushed images would look at the same print size.

This would mean using the 5D3 images at full resolution, while downsizing the D7000 files to 3840x2560 (the equivalent of downsizing a full-frame 36MP image down to 22MP) and looking at 100% crops of each.




  
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Invertalon
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Apr 05, 2012 17:57 |  #740

Wow, so people now want to compare shots underexposed by 5 stops and pushed back in post? LOL... Man, people must be bored!

Well I was after reading this topic, so I made some of my own with the 5D3... First one is pushed 3 stops, second one 5 stops.

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And 5-stops:

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Oh noes, banding at 5-stops!! :D

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Shadowblade
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Apr 05, 2012 18:36 |  #741

Invertalon wrote in post #14216573 (external link)
Wow, so people now want to compare shots underexposed by 5 stops and pushed back in post? LOL... Man, people must be bored!

Well I was after reading this topic, so I made some of my own with the 5D3... First one is pushed 3 stops, second one 5 stops.

QUOTED IMAGE

QUOTED IMAGE

And 5-stops:

QUOTED IMAGE

QUOTED IMAGE

Oh noes, banding at 5-stops!! :D

It's not about 'underexposing by 5 stops' then trying to recover the photo. It's about exposing properly in a high-dynamic-range situation, so as not to blow the highlights, then still having detail in the shadows in the same frame, which can then be adequately recovered. Imagine if, in your photo, the house and trees behind the foreground were, instead, a sunset and sky. In the original exposure, the foreground would be in deep shadow, but the sky would be properly exposed - in fact, just short of blowing out. You'd then have to push the shadows 3 stops or 5 stops in order to recover foreground detail. Increasing the exposure time isn't an option - if you did so, you'd blow out the sky. Multiple exposures aren't an option, since the leaves are rustling in the wind, and the multiple exposures wouldn't overlap properly. You wouldn't be able to adequately push these shadows in your samples.

In short, it's a test of useable dynamic range. You can't always use a GND, and you can't always use multiple exposures - if you shoot landscapes at all, dynamic range is a vital quality, and was always the Achilles heel of slide film.

And, I agree - the 5D3 shadows pushed 5 stops looks horrible!




  
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Invertalon
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Apr 05, 2012 18:43 |  #742

I understand that, but at most your looking at a stop or two at most which appear just fine with both the 5D3 and D800. So why do people find the need to push images even farther just to compare and bash one or the other? :D

If you have an image that required so much DR, bracket it and merge the RAW files in post. I never ran into such a bad dynamic range crunch that I needed so much push in post to recover shadows. Never!

I just REALLY don't think that this whole DR fiasco should make you switch from one brand to another. Especially when you have to go to 2+ stops to compare and find any real issues between the two. Both cameras are amazing tools... Chose your pick and go for it! (not you, just in general!)


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bfleck51
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Apr 05, 2012 18:57 |  #743

Holy crappers batman...if you miss exposure by 4 or 5 stops you better find yourself a new hobby!


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Shadowblade
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Apr 05, 2012 19:08 |  #744

Invertalon wrote in post #14216790 (external link)
I understand that, but at most your looking at a stop or two at most which appear just fine with both the 5D3 and D800. So why do people find the need to push images even farther just to compare and bash one or the other? :D

If you have an image that required so much DR, bracket it and merge the RAW files in post. I never ran into such a bad dynamic range crunch that I needed so much push in post to recover shadows. Never!

I just REALLY don't think that this whole DR fiasco should make you switch from one brand to another. Especially when you have to go to 2+ stops to compare and find any real issues between the two. Both cameras are amazing tools... Chose your pick and go for it! (not you, just in general!)

I'd say 3-4 stops is more reasonable - 4 stops is the difference between the brightest and darkest exposure of a typical 3-exposure bracket with the 5D2, with 2 stops between each exposure.

Merging exposures isn't always an option, due to movement - I've lost countless otherwise-great photo opportunities due to a slight breeze, which could otherwise have been taken if I could capture all the DR in a single exposure.

The 5D3 is better in this regard than the 5D2 - although the 5D2 had a nominal 11.9 stops of DR, the useable DR was probably 2-3 stops less, due to strong pattern noise in the deep shadows. But it's still no Exmor.




  
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Invertalon
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Apr 05, 2012 19:19 |  #745

Camera labs updated the comparison today (now with the D800 downsampled to 5D3 size)

http://www.cameralabs.​com …_down_sampled_n​oise.shtml (external link)


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Apr 05, 2012 19:36 |  #746

Invertalon wrote in post #14216930 (external link)
Camera labs updated the comparison today (now with the D800 downsampled to 5D3 size)

http://www.cameralabs.​com …_down_sampled_n​oise.shtml (external link)


Better, but still the same deal as before - the 5D3 shots seem to have more default NR in jpeg and, therefore, show less noise, but also less detail.




  
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Apr 05, 2012 19:40 |  #747

The 5D3 does kill detail with normal NR for sure... I turned mine off and have much more detail. In fact, the JPEG's SOOC with all NR turned off are very comparable to LR4 processing with detail. It is very good.


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Apr 05, 2012 19:45 |  #748

The camera labs test was done with default in-camera jpeg, though.




  
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AngryCorgi
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Apr 05, 2012 19:46 |  #749

On the plus side, the 5D3 doesn't appear quite as bad as the 5D2 in pushing shadows, as it appears more realistic to clean the 3EV push than 5D2 samples I've seen.


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trale
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Apr 05, 2012 19:46 |  #750

AngryCorgi wrote in post #14209838 (external link)
Sounds very, very optomistic and probably someone just guessing off the top of their head. Enthusiasm tends to breed exaggeration, especially when you are in the honeymoon phase of using a new camera.

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forum: Camera Rumors and Predictions


This suggests that there is little difference between the mk2 and mk3. Now the characteristics of the noise may make it appear to be more "usable" DR now, but that isn't how DR is measured.

Here's another comparison of SNR and DR of the mk2 and mk3 (and others). This particular test does show a 2 stop advantage.

http://www.techradar.c​om …286/page:5#arti​cleContent (external link)




  
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