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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 07 Apr 2012 (Saturday) 14:02
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Lens question

 
Mk1Racer
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Apr 07, 2012 14:02 |  #1

Not sure if this is the right forum for this or not. Just got a 70-200 f/2.8L IS Mk I, and I shot my first lacrosse game w/ it. Not sure what's going on w/ the IQ. Not sure if it needs micro adjust or what.

Here's the setup:

Canon 7D
Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS Mk I
IS-off, focus range set at 2.5m+
Kenko Pro-300 DGX 1.4x TC

ISO 400
f/4
1/2500th
145mm

The only post in LR3 was to auto-correct for the lens.

I've included the full image and a 100% crop. I would appreciate some input. Thanks.

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
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100% crop
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

7D, BG-E7, BGE2x2 (both FS), 17-55 f/2.8 IS, 17-85 f/4-5.6 IS (FS), 50 f/1.8, 85 f/1.8, 70-200 f/2.8L IS Mk I, 70-300 f/4-5.6L, 550EX, Kenko Pro300 1.4xTC

  
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sfinkernagel
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Apr 07, 2012 14:21 |  #2

The biggest issue that I see is that you are backlit- I find that the shadow parts of my images are never as crisp as the ones in more direct light. In addition, the TC won't help your cause.

Before I decided that there was something wrong, I would remove the TC, and shoot with the sun at least mostly behind me.

I usually shoot with my lenses wide open, but to be thorough, I would try stopping down a little too.




  
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sandpiper
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Apr 07, 2012 14:35 as a reply to  @ sfinkernagel's post |  #3

Yeah, the TC will have an affect, as could a filter if you had one on the front, and the lighting won't help. You removed the exif data, so we can't see your settings, which would have been very helpful. The shot looks a little noisy, which again can reduce sharpness in an image. What was your shutter speed? Too slow a shutter speed could cause a little softness too, even if it was fast enough to avoid actual blur.




  
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Plumtreelad
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Apr 07, 2012 16:00 as a reply to  @ sandpiper's post |  #4

Why was IS off? I know that with sports shots you will probably have been using a high shutter speed but nevertheless I would still keep IS on


5D Mk III|7D |1DmkIV |10 -22 |24 -105 F4 IS L | 35 F2 IS | 70-200 F2.8 IS II L | 85 1.8 | 300 F2.8 IS MK II L|1.4 Extender MK III |
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Mk1Racer
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Apr 07, 2012 17:19 |  #5

Plumtreelad wrote in post #14226520 (external link)
Why was IS off? I know that with sports shots you will probably have been using a high shutter speed but nevertheless I would still keep IS on

I added the EXIF data. There is a UV filter on the lens. What benefit is IS going to give w/ a moving subject and high shutter speed?

I will dig up shots w/ the TC and my previous non-IS version of the lens. I will also take some test shots w/ and w/o the TC and w/ and w/o the filter. The shots just seem excessively soft and noisy.


7D, BG-E7, BGE2x2 (both FS), 17-55 f/2.8 IS, 17-85 f/4-5.6 IS (FS), 50 f/1.8, 85 f/1.8, 70-200 f/2.8L IS Mk I, 70-300 f/4-5.6L, 550EX, Kenko Pro300 1.4xTC

  
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Dan ­ Marchant
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Apr 07, 2012 19:04 |  #6

With a UV filter and TC and f/4 your cutting out some light but even at 400 iso I don't think that is the main cause of the noise. It looks to me like your players are underexposed.

What metering mode where you using? It looks to me like your exposing for the bright background/whole scene and not for the players. Due to the direction you are shooting from, the side of the players you can see is in shadow and therefore under exposed compared to the brighter background (as can happen when shooting a bird in flight against a bright sky). Spot metering the players would help with this (but mean more blown highlights in the background). The better option would be to move and shoot with the sun behind you so that the side of the players that is facing you is well lit.

Mk1Racer wrote in post #14226845 (external link)
What benefit is IS going to give w/ a moving subject and high shutter speed?

Does the lens have two IS modes? If so one stabilises vertical and horizontal movement (no good for fast moving subjects), while the other just for vertical camera movement. This second mode is useful with moving targets.


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snyderman
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Apr 07, 2012 19:17 |  #7

A couple of things:

1. Take the filter off your lens. If it needed one, Canon would have provided one.

2. Lose the 1.4 TC. Get what you can get with the lens itself. It'll perform much better by itself.

3. Look in the 7D section for tips on how to best setup your 7D for sports shooting

4. I always used IS with that camera/lens combo and whether shooting at 1/640 or 1/2000 saw BETTER results with IS enabled, activated and working.

dave

ps: Here are a couple of 7D/70-200 f/2.8L IS lens examples WITH IS engaged at 1/640 and one at probably 1/1600 on the shutter:

Daylight and really fast shutter speed with IS on:

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Night ball game and 1/640 on shutter + IS on

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sfinkernagel
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Apr 07, 2012 20:30 |  #8

While I've not done any extensive research into it, my understanding is that IS will prevent blur from camera shake, so you could use much slower shutter speeds than the 1/focal length rule of thumb.... Rarely in sports photos would you need or want that slow of a shutter speed, so the benefits of it seem negated when you are shooting at action-stopping shutter speeds. Not that it will hurt, but I don't see how it will help either. I usually shut it off, just to conserve some battery life. Regardless- I don't think that is the source of your issue here.

Backlighting, TC and a UV filter.... Change all of that and then see what the shots look like.




  
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Mk1Racer
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Apr 08, 2012 06:14 |  #9

Thanks everyone for the input.

@Synderman, those are the kinds of images I would expect w/ this lens. Can you provide the EXIF data for them, as well as the uncropped versions? I will try it w/o the TC and filter. Normally games on this field wouldn't be back-lit like that, but this was an early morning game. For whatever reason, no one is allowed to shoot from the player's side of the field.


7D, BG-E7, BGE2x2 (both FS), 17-55 f/2.8 IS, 17-85 f/4-5.6 IS (FS), 50 f/1.8, 85 f/1.8, 70-200 f/2.8L IS Mk I, 70-300 f/4-5.6L, 550EX, Kenko Pro300 1.4xTC

  
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John ­ Godwin
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Apr 08, 2012 09:46 |  #10

Mk1Racer wrote in post #14229213 (external link)
T
@Synderman, Can you provide the EXIF data for them.

The EXIF data is embedded in the photos. Depending on which browser you are using you might need an Add On.

For Firefox I have one where all I have to do is right click and then click on the EXIF viewer.


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Mk1Racer
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Apr 24, 2012 07:43 |  #11

Tried several more shots w/ the lens. No filter, no TC, stopped down, etc., and it still seems to front-focus and be generally soft. More so in overcast conditions than in bright sun. Took the lens and my 7D to Canon Jamesburg yesterday, and they're going to check both out. Should have them back by tomorrow. I will report back.


7D, BG-E7, BGE2x2 (both FS), 17-55 f/2.8 IS, 17-85 f/4-5.6 IS (FS), 50 f/1.8, 85 f/1.8, 70-200 f/2.8L IS Mk I, 70-300 f/4-5.6L, 550EX, Kenko Pro300 1.4xTC

  
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Mk1Racer
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Apr 25, 2012 21:44 |  #12

Picked it up from Canon today, and sure enough, there was a problem w/ the lens. They ended up replacing the AF system in the lens. I will process the pics tomorrow from the lacrosse games I shot today. I expect to see a significant improvement.


7D, BG-E7, BGE2x2 (both FS), 17-55 f/2.8 IS, 17-85 f/4-5.6 IS (FS), 50 f/1.8, 85 f/1.8, 70-200 f/2.8L IS Mk I, 70-300 f/4-5.6L, 550EX, Kenko Pro300 1.4xTC

  
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kenjancef
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Apr 26, 2012 20:47 |  #13

Mk1Racer wrote in post #14330016 (external link)
Picked it up from Canon today, and sure enough, there was a problem w/ the lens. They ended up replacing the AF system in the lens. I will process the pics tomorrow from the lacrosse games I shot today. I expect to see a significant improvement.

Wow... Lucky you dropped it off then. Please let us know how the lacrosse shots came out.


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Mk1Racer
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Apr 27, 2012 18:04 |  #14

Here are some more shots. The first two are w/ no TC and no filter, prior to taking the lens to Canon
f/4, 1/1250, ISO200, 200mm

Full Size

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100% Crop
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The next two are after having it serviced at Canon
f/4, 1/3200, ISO400, 200mm
Full size
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
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100% crop
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR


I think there's a noticeable difference in the IQ of the images, after the service.

7D, BG-E7, BGE2x2 (both FS), 17-55 f/2.8 IS, 17-85 f/4-5.6 IS (FS), 50 f/1.8, 85 f/1.8, 70-200 f/2.8L IS Mk I, 70-300 f/4-5.6L, 550EX, Kenko Pro300 1.4xTC

  
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kenjancef
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Apr 27, 2012 20:54 as a reply to  @ Mk1Racer's post |  #15

Not sure if it's also due to lighting, but the second ones are like night and day better than the first ones! I assume the second two, the ones after service, have the TC connected and filter, or is it just the straight lens without TC or converter?


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Lens question
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