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Thread started 16 Mar 2012 (Friday) 08:26
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5D Mark III microphone suggestions for a school play?

 
ben_r_
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Apr 03, 2012 15:43 |  #16

InterMurph wrote in post #14203604 (external link)
Maybe next year he will upgrade his 5D Mark II to a III, and then we can really talk.

No reason to wait for that, the 5D2 shoots video pretty much the same as the 5D3 as far as quality goes.


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InterMurph
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Apr 03, 2012 16:22 |  #17

Ben, I have heard that, but the 12-minute limit scared me a bit. The 30-minute limit on the III was perfect.

Although I suppose the II could have been used for the close-ups.

Well next year, he won't have two kids in the play, so he'll be freed up!




  
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ben_r_
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Apr 03, 2012 16:46 |  #18

InterMurph wrote in post #14204505 (external link)
Although I suppose the II could have been used for the close-ups.

Well next year, he won't have two kids in the play, so he'll be freed up!

Exactly.

And ah, well that would make a difference.


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Erik ­ S. ­ Klein
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Apr 03, 2012 17:16 |  #19

I use a Rode Stereo Videomic for this. I bought a couple of hundred feet of extension cable and put the mic on a stand right in front of the stage (or behind it if I can) and then run cable back to the camera...

The downside is that I end up using the 70-200 to capture which gives me a very narrow DOF. The plus side is that I am above and behind the crowd but with good sound quality.


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ben_r_
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Apr 04, 2012 11:04 |  #20

Erik S. Klein wrote in post #14204724 (external link)
I use a Rode Stereo Videomic for this. I bought a couple of hundred feet of extension cable and put the mic on a stand right in front of the stage (or behind it if I can) and then run cable back to the camera...

The downside is that I end up using the 70-200 to capture which gives me a very narrow DOF. The plus side is that I am above and behind the crowd but with good sound quality.

Wow. Yea that could work as long as there is no noise sources around, but a run that long of an unbalanced connection could be a real nightmare. Especially when added to the noise generated by the internal pres in a DSLR if youre feeding that line directly into the camera.


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Erik ­ S. ­ Klein
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Apr 04, 2012 11:36 |  #21

ben_r_ wrote in post #14208543 (external link)
Wow. Yea that could work as long as there is no noise sources around, but a run that long of an unbalanced connection could be a real nightmare. Especially when added to the noise generated by the internal pres in a DSLR if youre feeding that line directly into the camera.

Yep. It's not an ideal solution but it's far better than the internal mic and it's lots better than the Rode mic mounted on the hot shoe. I should mention that the cables I have are varied in length. I have a couple of 25', a 50' and a 100' and use whichever one(s) make the most sense for a given situation.

The longer the run and the more connectors involved the more noise I have to fight... and the more gaffers tape I have to burn to keep it all safe and in place.

Ideally I'd buy a nice stereo digital recorder with a pair of good mics but, for the number of times I do these kinds of videos, that would be crazy overkill... which doesn't mean I won't do it someday. :D The kits I've looked at fall in around $1,000 for the recorder and two good microphones. A bit more if I want to go wireless...


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ChasWG
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Apr 04, 2012 11:51 |  #22

Stills are cheaper than video any day of the week and twice as expensive on Sundays!

I don't like to work on Sundays, unless it involves a NFL game... ;)


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ben_r_
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Apr 04, 2012 11:55 |  #23

Erik S. Klein wrote in post #14208677 (external link)
Yep. It's not an ideal solution but it's far better than the internal mic and it's lots better than the Rode mic mounted on the hot shoe. I should mention that the cables I have are varied in length. I have a couple of 25', a 50' and a 100' and use whichever one(s) make the most sense for a given situation.

The longer the run and the more connectors involved the more noise I have to fight... and the more gaffers tape I have to burn to keep it all safe and in place.

Ideally I'd buy a nice stereo digital recorder with a pair of good mics but, for the number of times I do these kinds of videos, that would be crazy overkill... which doesn't mean I won't do it someday. :D The kits I've looked at fall in around $1,000 for the recorder and two good microphones. A bit more if I want to go wireless...

Ha, the guys who get more into this spend $2000 on ONE mic! Schoeps CMC6 power unit or a CMR with preamp with an MK4 head is about the industry standard for "taping" as they call it. If youre interested in getting more into that kinda stuff, start hanging around taperssection.com.


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Erik ­ S. ­ Klein
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Apr 04, 2012 12:50 |  #24

ben_r_ wrote in post #14208767 (external link)
Ha, the guys who get more into this spend $2000 on ONE mic! Schoeps CMC6 power unit or a CMR with preamp with an MK4 head is about the industry standard for "taping" as they call it. If youre interested in getting more into that kinda stuff, start hanging around taperssection.com.

I know how deep I can get into audio (and video) if I catch that bug.

At 2K I'm going for glass for stills.

At 1K I may be able to talk myself into the improved audio performance for what I do.

I have a friend using his 1D4 for videography who just built out (and showed off) his audio kit. And the external monitor for focus and review. I think I was most impressed with some of the "unexpected" results. He was filming the surf near the Golden Gate and heard a noise off-frame while filming. Turned the camera to this tiny little bird peeping in the wind... it sounded like it was sitting on your shoulder. try that with the internal mic! :D


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ChasWG
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Apr 04, 2012 15:03 |  #25

A proper mic, in the right situation is a thing of beauty. But one mic isn't perfect for all situations. A lot of the time you can "make due" with only one mic, but for someone like me that does sound recording for a living, I have to have several different types of mics for different situations.

Here's an example of one Schoeps CMC6/41 in a sit down interview. Recorded on my Sound Devices 552 mixer with 2 channel built in recorder.
It's an interview we did for CBS Sports before the Denver Broncos vs. Pittsburgh Steelers Wildcard playoff game this past football season.

https://vimeo.com/3503​7963 (external link)

Normally I would run two sepperate channels recording two different mics (a lav mic - Sanken COS11 - on channel 1 and the Schoeps on channel 2), but in this case we had no time after the interview subject sat down to mess around. We had to be fully ready to go with almost no tweeking time. And the Schoeps just sounded so much better in that room than the lav did. So I ran only one mic and split it to both channels, but down 5 dB on channel 2 as a safety factor.

But just to let you know, as good as that mic sounds in that environment, I didn't use it the following day when I was working for ESPN along the sidelines at Sports Authority Field. Then I used my Sennhieser MKH-416 for it's narrower pickup pattern and stronger side noise rejection.


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InterMurph
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Apr 07, 2012 12:59 |  #26

OK, I finally have a clip that includes audio from one of the Zoom H4n recorders:

http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=Iqi_bvNHpd0&h​d=1 (external link)

It's down-scaled to 1280 x 720p, then massacred by YouTube's compression.

The audio comes from the microphone you can see on a stand on the bottom right of the picture. I have done nothing to the audio; no gain, no filters, etc.

I am experimenting with using audio from both of the microphones, synced up.




  
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Apr 08, 2012 19:44 |  #27

I-Murph, that sounds pretty good for only one set of mics and not being centered. Any reason why it wasn't centered, lowered and pointed upward? I think if you had done those things it would have been pretty darn stunning for that situation. The mic placement in the Zoom H4n, if centered on that stage would have been pretty close the optimal in that situation. Maybe that was the best that you could (or were allowed to do) but it seems to have worked out. I too think that the projection of these young actors really helped. And in fact it also helped from an artistic stand point. I found that watching this through to the end and being able to see the tops of some people's heads and the stage floor in the foreground and having the kids being slightly off mic but projecting, I felt like I was there in the theater watching it live. Almost. So in a funny sort of way, not having the kids perfectly mic'd, this actually works out better in the end after watching this. This is part of creating that effect called "Suspension of Disbelief." After a while we forget we are watching a recording and start to forget to disbelieve. A hard thing to do and something every film maker tries to create.

You may not have been trying for this, but I believe you actually succeeded to a certain point.

My only crit., after watching your act 1, is pretty much what I said above. If the H4n was centered on the stage then the effect would have been a lot better than with the recorder and mics being off to the left a bit. Take a look at the video and listen closely to those kids that are on the far left or that face completely left when they talk. They aren't heard as well.

But again, I'm picking nits. Over all, you did pretty darn well with only a few bits of gear and not a lot of money.

Congrats!

As you can see, mic proximity to subject is very, very important.


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InterMurph
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Apr 08, 2012 20:22 |  #28

Chas, I really appreciate your comments.

As you suspected, I couldn't center the Zoom, because that space was occupied by a ramp that the kids used to enter and exit the stage. Ans it wasn't tilted up because the stands I borrowed didn't tilt.

I have experimented with using audio from both Zoom units, to balance out the problems you describe. For most of the dialog, at least one mic picked it up well.

But as my photographer friend with two kids in the play keeps telling me--this recording is much better than the school has ever had for a 5th-grade play, so stop worrying so much. And next year, I will know to reserve a spot for the mix before they design the set.




  
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InterMurph
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Apr 09, 2012 07:16 |  #29

OK, here is the same video, but with audio from both remote recorders mixed together:

http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=FG_ZKei-Az8&hd=1 (external link)

The other recorder is at the far left of the stage, just inside the shot as it opens.

The main problem with this microphone is that it is right next to the keyboard's speaker; when the keyboard plays, it is [audio equivalent of overexposed].




  
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Apr 09, 2012 22:00 as a reply to  @ InterMurph's post |  #30

I think your friend's comments are spot on. This was head and shoulders above anything the school has ever had in the past. And with what you have learned from this production, you can do so much more next year.

Great job. I'm sure the rest of the parents will appreciate having this for posterity.


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