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Thread started 17 Apr 2012 (Tuesday) 18:30
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Eg-S help please

 
bradboob
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Apr 18, 2012 20:40 |  #16

sorry guys just now catching up to this thread - from my original post - yes i was referring to my manual samyang 35mm lens... with the aperture ring i have to control it and the focus ring, so i can stop it down and see the viewfinder get darker by each stop.

It's different with my 50mm autofocus prime, I should have been more specific :)


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dachness
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Apr 18, 2012 20:58 |  #17

Any one have experience with these type of screens with F4 lenses? My two lenses are 2.8 and when I use a 1.4TC on one for football it will become F4.

Is it usable with an F4 lens?


Daniel
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Scatterbrained
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Apr 18, 2012 23:46 |  #18

dachness wrote in post #14289722 (external link)
Any one have experience with these type of screens with F4 lenses? My two lenses are 2.8 and when I use a 1.4TC on one for football it will become F4.

Is it usable with an F4 lens?

I use an FD 300 2.8 and an FD 600 4.5. These are the old, fully manual Canon lenses from the 80's and earlier. You have to manually close the aperture, I have no issues stopping the lenses down and leaving that way to shoot. I also have no issues composing landscape scenes at night with the 17-40 f/4L, or using the 70-200 2.8 with the 2x TC (f/5.6). Here's a shot that was sighted/focused shot with the lens stopped down to about f/11ish at about 8am. No issues there.

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

Gull Landing (external link) by tltichy (external link), on Flickr
I kept the lens stopped down that morning and had no issues seeing what I was doing.

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melcat
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Apr 19, 2012 03:45 |  #19

paulkaye wrote in post #14288920 (external link)
However, IMHO, viewfinders on modern DSLRs are pretty poor at the whole manual focussing thing whatever screen you use (because they're too dim due to the AF stealing light via semi-silvering on the main mirror).

The trouble with that claim is that several manual-focus cameras that were renowned for their good finders also used a semi-silvered mirror, for the exposure meter. This includes the Olympus OM-3 and OM-4 and the Nikon F3.

I have just compared my OM-3 and the 100mm f/2 lens with my Canon 1DS Mk III (with Ec-S) and the Zeiss 100mm f/2 in a rather dim room. The brightness is almost identical, but the OM-3 has a very slightly larger finder. This indicates the Canon is almost as bright.

However, one would normally focus using the split-image device in the OM-3, which is roughly comparable to AF confirm on the Canon.

It also has to be said there were numerous complaints from OM users in the change from the brighter OM-1 to the OM-4, and eventually Olympus did bring out a brighter screen similar to the stock Canon EOS ones but with a split-image device. That screen was shipped with kits that had an f/2.8 zoom, and could be retrofitted to every OM-3 and OM-4 ever made (because of the semi-silvered mirror design!) I think it simply depends on how good your eyesight is.

My advice would be to not bother with Eg-S screens unless:

- You do a lot of MF work
- You have reasonably fast lenses and work in good light
- You can't use (or don't want to use) Live View

I found the Ee-S screen useful on the original 5D to see what the AF had locked on to. It was especially confusing with the stock screen because the actual AF points are shifted down slightly from the marked position on my copy. (There is no such problem with my 1DS Mk III.)




  
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dachness
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Apr 19, 2012 11:13 |  #20

Scatterbrained wrote in post #14290602 (external link)
I use an FD 300 2.8 and an FD 600 4.5. These are the old, fully manual Canon lenses from the 80's and earlier. You have to manually close the aperture, I have no issues stopping the lenses down and leaving that way to shoot. I also have no issues composing landscape scenes at night with the 17-40 f/4L, or using the 70-200 2.8 with the 2x TC (f/5.6). Here's a shot that was sighted/focused shot with the lens stopped down to about f/11ish at about 8am. No issues there.
IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

Gull Landing (external link) by tltichy (external link), on Flickr
I kept the lens stopped down that morning and had no issues seeing what I was doing.

Thanks for the info. In your experience is there a benefit to using the screen to see DOF at 2.8?


Daniel
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Scatterbrained
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Apr 19, 2012 11:55 |  #21

dachness wrote in post #14292769 (external link)
Thanks for the info. In your experience is there a benefit to using the screen to see DOF at 2.8?

Honestly, I couldn't imagine not having that screen in my camera after having used if for the past year. I kept the original screen thinking that I'd want if for when I was out shooting at night or in dark areas, but I haven't had any issues. I have no issues manually focusing in conditions that are too dark for the AF of the 5DII to operate in. As far as DOF, I can shoot handheld macro on the fly with extension tubes stacked to boot and be confident that what I'm seeing is exactly what I'll be getting, and shooting up close with the 85LII it can make the difference between getting it spot on or being off enough to kill the shot.


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alpha_1976
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Apr 19, 2012 12:29 |  #22

it's a little darker when I use it with 17-40mm but not a big deal really. Go for it.


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dachness
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Apr 19, 2012 13:06 |  #23

Thanks guys. Looks like I'l give one a shot with the 60D.


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bobbyz
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Apr 24, 2012 21:51 |  #24

ejenner wrote in post #14285393 (external link)
Something you may not know based on the question, but the reason we talk about f2.8 and slower is that for lenses faster than f2.8, the aperture the lens is set at before the shot is taken is f2.8.

So a 1.4 lens will be the same brightness as a 2.8 lens in the viewfinder.

And then of course if you set it at f8, the camera only stops down when the shot is taken and at f1.4 it only opens up when the shot is taken.
One other point about this is that you are thus focusing with the lens at f2.8 even if you are taking the shot at f1.4. Therefore the DOF you see in the viewfinder will actually be larger than in the shot.

Which is yet another reason I would like to see DOF preview lock buttons like we had 40 years ago.

ejenner wrote in post #14287984 (external link)
Do you have a fast prime? If so, put it on the camera, set to wide open and look down the lens to the diaphragm. Now press the DOF preview and you'll see what I mean.

Sorry to get back late. Yes I have fast primes. Just tested my 85mm f1.8. Put it on f1.8 (wide open). Press DOF button. Do you see diaphragm, no. Now take a shot at f1.8, do you see diaphgram, no as lens is wide open. Now put at f2.0. No diaphragm as lens is metering wide open. press DOF or take a shot, diaphgragm closes to f2.0. So I don't know what you are talking.

f2.8 stuff is DOF which VF shows. Even if you have faster lens than f2.8, VF can't show DOF faster than f2.8.


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BigBlueDodge
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Apr 24, 2012 22:43 |  #25

I bougth the EG-S for my 2 year old 5d MKII a couple of months ago, and I can't believe I waited that long. I love that screen, as it makes focusing my primes so much easier. The screen is 2/3 stop darker then the regular screen, so you will notice a change. The reason I know it's 2/3 stop darker, is because the metering sensors are actually in the pentaprism housing, behind the AF screen. So installing a darker screen lets less light to the metering sensor, and thus over exposurre. This is the reason you have to set the Custom Function, to tell the camera that the EG-S screen has been installed. On my camera, I took some shots with the CF disabled, and with the CF set to EG-S. When looking at the pictures, I saw that the pictures shot with CF set to EG-S were 2/3 stop darker than without.

With f/4.0 lenses, you aren't likely to notice a difference in daylight. However, for me the biggest difference is shooting indoors, where I think an f/4.0 lens would definately show the loss of light


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phongho@mac.com
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Apr 25, 2012 01:57 |  #26

So with the custom function set to EG-S, we aren't going to lose light when taking pictures right? It only plays with the metering sensor?

So a shot at 1/60 with a EG-S should be the same with a EG-A as long as you change the custom function.




  
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bobbyz
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Apr 25, 2012 09:02 |  #27

Screen is not between lens and the sensor. If you in manual mode, whether C Fn is set or not, you picture would be same with one vs the other screen.


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melcat
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Apr 25, 2012 09:08 |  #28

BigBlueDodge wrote in post #14323833 (external link)
On my camera, I took some shots with the CF disabled, and with the CF set to EG-S.

You would need to repeat that measurement with lenses of different maximum aperture, or with a manual aperture lens (e.g. adapted OM) set to different apertures. I don't think it's the same for all apertures. In other words, the custom function is choosing a curve rather than a constant offset.




  
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Eg-S help please
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