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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 10 Oct 2011 (Monday) 02:01
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Phottix Odin, Wireless E-TTL that works!!!!

 
Yohan ­ Pamudji
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Apr 18, 2012 16:29 |  #571

DHPHOTO66 wrote in post #14288234 (external link)
With the migration to the new system also means a drop in prices for the older non-compatible units, this will maintain those third party systems.

Yep. Here's a 2-flash wireless system comparison:

Used 580EX x2 = $250 x 2 = $500
Phottix Odin with 1 transmitter and 2 receivers = $450
TOTAL = $950

vs.

New 600EX-RT x2 = $630 x 2 = $1260
New ST-E3-RT = $320 (man I'm glad this came down from the ridiculous $400+ announced price)
TOTAL = $1580

There are certainly benefits to the Canon system, but with each flash you add to the mix the difference grows by another $200+. It's about time Canon got wise to the RF flash phenomenon, but prices will have to settle way down before it will wipe out the 3rd party RF flash market, and even then the 3rd party market could find a way to adapt and survive.




  
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Apr 18, 2012 18:19 |  #572

580's will drop and i'll be able to grab a few more for cheap!


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liupublic
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Apr 18, 2012 21:48 |  #573

You are comparing new price vs old. Hardly fair.

It's like saying an 2008 Infinity is $20k cheaper than the brand new Lexus, since they can both drive fine, there is no real functional difference. We all should buy the 08 Infinity.

How about this comparison?
2 580ex II = $500 x2 + Phottix Odin w/ 1 transmitter and 2 receivers $450 = $1450

Compares pretty easily to $1580 for the new Canon system.

Canon's RF trigger system will start to drive down prices for all the other ETTL triggers. The only way to keep price up for 3rd party vendor is to offer useful additional features. For example, an AF assist lamp would be nice on the controller.

Yohan Pamudji wrote in post #14288464 (external link)
Yep. Here's a 2-flash wireless system comparison:

Used 580EX x2 = $250 x 2 = $500
Phottix Odin with 1 transmitter and 2 receivers = $450
TOTAL = $950

vs.

New 600EX-RT x2 = $630 x 2 = $1260
New ST-E3-RT = $320 (man I'm glad this came down from the ridiculous $400+ announced price)
TOTAL = $1580

There are certainly benefits to the Canon system, but with each flash you add to the mix the difference grows by another $200+. It's about time Canon got wise to the RF flash phenomenon, but prices will have to settle way down before it will wipe out the 3rd party RF flash market, and even then the 3rd party market could find a way to adapt and survive.


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DHPHOTO66
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Apr 18, 2012 22:29 |  #574

liupublic wrote in post #14289992 (external link)
How about this comparison?
2 580ex II = $500 x2 + Phottix Odin w/ 1 transmitter and 2 receivers $450 = $1450

Compares pretty easily to $1580 for the new Canon system.

Canon's RF trigger system will start to drive down prices for all the other ETTL triggers. The only way to keep price up for 3rd party vendor is to offer useful additional features. For example, an AF assist lamp would be nice on the controller.

The point is that the 580EXs price will drop drastically, the new system price wont anytime soon. You are correct, the third party vendors will surely step up their game...REMEMBER this is the real reason Canon had to develop this new system(pressure from these vendors). Phottix is already working on a speedlight, who know maybe it will have a receiver built in and I am sure there will be an Odin MkII in the near future, the first Odin prototype did have an assist lamp, guaranteed it will be back, that 1/3 stop in Manual mode will also be there and who knows maybe more chanels...


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Yohan ­ Pamudji
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Apr 18, 2012 22:56 |  #575

liupublic wrote in post #14289992 (external link)
You are comparing new price vs old. Hardly fair.

It's like saying an 2008 Infinity is $20k cheaper than the brand new Lexus, since they can both drive fine, there is no real functional difference. We all should buy the 08 Infinity.

How about this comparison?
2 580ex II = $500 x2 + Phottix Odin w/ 1 transmitter and 2 receivers $450 = $1450

Compares pretty easily to $1580 for the new Canon system.

Did I say we should all go 3rd party? Don't put words in my mouth. What I did say was that "there are certainly benefits to the Canon system", and that means functional (refresh/readiness indicator for slaves at the master controller) as well as other benefits such as warranty, the peace of mind of new equipment, etc.

Sorry, but it is fair. The whole point is to see if you can save any money going 3rd party (otherwise why bother, right?), and the 580EX is a great bargain right now. Might even be the case that you could get a 550EX to do the job, although it's been a long time since I've looked at the 550EX's specs while I know that the 580EX is very close to the 580EX II so you're not giving up much going that route.

You can't get a used 600EX-RT right now so the only comparison is new vs. used. Yeah it's uneven, but again the whole point is to see how much money can be saved going 3rd party. In a year when you might be able to pick up the 600EX-RT used and/or the new price goes down to a more reasonable level the value proposition will change, but for now the best bang for the buck is in 3rd party. Notice that I priced the Odin new and not used. Although I picked mine up used I know how rarely they go up for sale so I picked what I considered the most realistic comparison scenario.

But now that I think about it let's look at it from an upgrade perspective and I'll put it in the best light possible. Say I already have 2 580EX II flashes and an ST-E2. Used market resale value on that is about $900. That means the upgrade to 2x 600EX-RT and ST-E3-RT is only $680. I consider that very reasonable because adding the Odin system to those existing flashes would cost $325 ($450 minus $125 from the sale of the ST-E2 to bring the cost down). That's getting into more palatable territory for me. If one has 580EX or 550EX flashes instead then the numbers tilt back in favor of 3rd party because the Canon upgrade route becomes more expensive at $930 and above.

One benefit of the Odin and similar systems that may or may not matter to you is that they can also be used to wirelessly trigger studio strobes. I'll be using that functionality too, so that's a plus for 3rd party that Canon will never match.

Don't forget that Canon's RF system only offers full functionality on the 5DIII and 1DX. There's conflicting info on whether that's actually true but Canon's official literature says so, so until there's overwhelming user review proof to the contrary it's safe to say that's a big strike against Canon's RF system.

Canon's RF trigger system will start to drive down prices for all the other ETTL triggers. The only way to keep price up for 3rd party vendor is to offer useful additional features. For example, an AF assist lamp would be nice on the controller.

I hope you're right that competition spurs improvement in price and/or functionality. That would be the best outcome for all of us.




  
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DHPHOTO66
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Apr 18, 2012 23:15 as a reply to  @ Yohan Pamudji's post |  #576

Well said Yohan...
I am a bit upset, it tokk Canon too long to bring out this sytem and they seem to be aiming it at just the Pro market...Did it really cost them that much to develop? I love my Odin system and I know they will be improvments....


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elv
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Apr 19, 2012 00:27 as a reply to  @ DHPHOTO66's post |  #577

The problem with the Canon RF system is that its closed system, they will never make compatible stand alone recievers so that you can expand into other lights/monolights etc.

I agree that in a few years the Canon system will be the norm for speedlites and most third party will be working around that system, or providing similar lights with built in radio systems.

But as far as it goes now there are a lot of existing flashes and camera bodies out there that can make better use of triggers like the Odin. They work just as well with an old 20D and a 420ex.


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DHPHOTO66
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Apr 19, 2012 09:01 |  #578

elv wrote in post #14290752 (external link)
But as far as it goes now there are a lot of existing flashes and camera bodies out there that can make better use of triggers like the Odin. They work just as well with an old 20D and a 420ex.

Yes I love the fact that I can use my 420s, that was great because I just had them sitting around catching dust....


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PLLphotography
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Apr 19, 2012 09:05 |  #579

I'm starting to see other posts where people are weighing in the new Canon RT system as opposed to 3rd party systems. While the new Canon system seems awfully nice, it's still closed and proprietary, allowing only Canon equipment to be used, leaving flashes and strobes from other manufacturers left out in the cold.

I'm quite happy so far with the Phottix Odins, as I was with the Pocket Wizards, Cactus V5s, etc. they serve a purpose to trigger off-camera flashes and strobes. The Odins are more "closed" than the others due to the E-TTL capabilities, but can still trigger non-Canon flashes and strobes manually just fine. It's a trade-off for being able to use E-TTL and controlling flash settings from your camera. Not sure if Canon's system will ever allow that (doubtful).


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joonrhee
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Apr 26, 2012 13:59 |  #580

So I sold off 3xTT5s and AC3 and got this Odin setup. I am very impressed and so far so good!!


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Apr 26, 2012 14:03 |  #581

joonrhee wrote in post #14333468 (external link)
So I sold off 3xTT5s and AC3 and got this Odin setup. I am very impressed and so far so good!!

What took you so long? :)



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joonrhee
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Apr 26, 2012 15:23 |  #582

SYS wrote in post #14333480 (external link)
What took you so long? :)

:lol: I know, huh? :D


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wizard13
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Apr 26, 2012 16:29 |  #583

elv wrote in post #14262725 (external link)
Yep theres a pre-flash with the Odins even in remote manual, so unless you connect the speedlights via sync cord to the Odin receiver (or tape over the TTL contacts) the lightmeter is going to measure the pre-flash instead.

And the Odin test fire button only puts out a small flash pulse that does not equal the power level set on the speedlights, so again that can't be used to take a meter reading.

One known workaround is to set the Odin TCU to second curtain sync and use a long shutter speed to meter the real flash pulse separately from the early pre-flash.

If you come up with any other solutions though please let us know.

Sorry to bring this back up, but gave it a try. Used a several second second curtain setting. Pressed the meter button after the first pre-flash. Then waited for the second flash. The meter kept coming up with F4.0 no matter what settings I used. The actual pictures ranged from complete black to complete white. Any other ideas? Or am I missing something?
Thanks!!


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RicCederholm
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Apr 28, 2012 11:43 |  #584

Picked up the Odin system about a month back as I was going to be shooting a wedding solo for the first time (which meant no assistant to adjust flash settings on the multiple off-camera flashes). Can not stress how awesome it was to be able to adjust the power and zoom settings from the camera itself. Also brought back to life my 420EX.

The following pic is with the 430EX about 50 feet back and the 420EX through a softbox. Great system!! Taken with the Canon 7D.

IMAGE: http://www.cederholmphotography.com/photos/i-4CnZ9bN/0/XL/i-4CnZ9bN-XL.jpg

Cheers!

Ric



  
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joonrhee
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Apr 28, 2012 12:07 |  #585

That is an awesome and creative shot Ric!!


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Phottix Odin, Wireless E-TTL that works!!!!
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