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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Weddings & Other Family Events Talk 
Thread started 02 May 2012 (Wednesday) 08:13
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Do you do engagement shoots in the middle of the day?

 
sapearl
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May 02, 2012 11:06 |  #16

Another thing you may want to consider for some of the shoots - shoot a portion of the images from a stool or short ladder.

By slightly elevating yourself relative the position of the subjects, you will be visually "lowering" the horizon and level of the lake in your frame. The subjects still get the lake background they desire, but the bright sunny horizon line can be decreased and even eliminated. It's all about viewpoint. And just by having the texture of only the water, this simplifies the background and brings more attention to the individuals.

I've done a few water related shoots and this technique is very effective. It's not a perfect solution, but handled properly you will deliver a different sort of pleasing look that your competition may not use. You have just set yourself apart from the other GWC :D.


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May 02, 2012 11:09 |  #17

pray for some clouds??

:)


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umphotography
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May 02, 2012 18:47 as a reply to  @ post 14366634 |  #18

Before you nay Sayers say its not a good idea to use ND's and circulars or its a has-sell.......think again.

I would strongly suggest you look at this post from Lloyd. He posted this last year, maybe before that, and it totally changed the way i shoot outdoors. Killing your ambient and using strobes and speed lights is probably the most creative way you can shoot outdoors any time of the day. I cant thank Lloyd enough for posting this

Its OH WOW information.....read it closely

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1069891


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May 02, 2012 19:06 |  #19

Mike, I agree, those are amazing shots. What I was saying is that the background doesnt look appealing to me for certain kinds of shots. Its edgy and contrasty which is great for shots like these but if you want light and airy, I dont think its going to happen. The evening light is softer and more even than any midday cloudless light.

Would that kind of light look good for a formal family shot or soft maternity image? I really think it depends on the image and style more than being able to shoot at whatever time.


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tnis0612
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May 03, 2012 08:28 |  #20

Yeah i'm with Shane on this one, the shots are absolutely great, but they aren't necessairly consistent with others' style. Like he mentions in that thread, they were looking for a "fashion" type look. He also mentions that he was shooting in the evening and if he was in midday sun he might have to use f22.

Honestly though i'd be thrilled to get shots like that, the only real issue I have is how many of those different setups could I do in an hour engagement shoot. Even with a little experience setting it all up I doubt it's a speedy process.

For anyone interested, I explained to the couple the difficulties of shooting in those conditions and that my preference would be to reschedule because the more ideal the conditions we can get the better overall the photos will be. I told them we could still get some great shots if we keep the current time. They agreed to reschedule for another day. Thanks for the help everyone.

JakAHearts wrote in post #14369222 (external link)
Mike, I agree, those are amazing shots. What I was saying is that the background doesnt look appealing to me for certain kinds of shots. Its edgy and contrasty which is great for shots like these but if you want light and airy, I dont think its going to happen. The evening light is softer and more even than any midday cloudless light.

Would that kind of light look good for a formal family shot or soft maternity image? I really think it depends on the image and style more than being able to shoot at whatever time.


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May 03, 2012 11:01 |  #21

You can say how that's not your style all you want, but that is irrelevant. They need to shoot midday (likely in the sun), they want the lake in the background, and they want it visible. Knowing that, there are only two ways to do that. Either flash them like I did in the link posted above, or you can front light them with the sun, neither which will be 'your style'. You can't shoot outside the realm of reality.

We can't always just do what we feel we want to do, we have to be flexible and give clients what they want at times. If you can't shoot in the evening, you won't get nice, evening light. So you gotta work with harsh light, and do it well.

TBH, I don't put any restrictions on what time of day to shoot. You can either fight with clients about time, or just roll with it and produce great work regardless with no excuses. I just find it a lot easier to just shoot rather than fight about time. I always make recommendations for evening, but in reality, people are too busy and it often just simply does not work.


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tnis0612
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May 03, 2012 11:27 |  #22

I disagree that it's not relevant. They hired me based on my portfolio, so to give them something with a completely different look and feel than everything else in my portfolio is not necessarily going to make for happy clients.

Yes, they "needed" to shoot midday, but at what cost? Do they realize that by making that decision they will get a different style of photos and fewer photos because of setup time? I found that once I explained that to them, they decided they didn't need to shoot midday anymore.

I think putting no restrictions on time is absolutely ideal and that clearly works for you. But there are photographers like myself that have less experience, less gear, and charge less that need clients to understand that the time choice they make can impact the type and quantity of photos they receive. If they are fine with that, then we move forward and I will absolutely do the best I can and get them some great shots...if not, then we pick a time where I can be more sure I can get them results consistent with what they see on my site. With more experience I will hopefully have a chance to do the type of shooting that you showed in the post linked above, but I want to make sure it's for a client that knows what they are getting.

picturecrazy wrote in post #14372870 (external link)
You can say how that's not your style all you want, but that is irrelevant. They need to shoot midday (likely in the sun), they want the lake in the background, and they want it visible. Knowing that, there are only two ways to do that. Either flash them like I did in the link posted above, or you can front light them with the sun, neither which will be 'your style'. You can't shoot outside the realm of reality.

We can't always just do what we feel we want to do, we have to be flexible and give clients what they want at times. If you can't shoot in the evening, you won't get nice, evening light. So you gotta work with harsh light, and do it well.

TBH, I don't put any restrictions on what time of day to shoot. You can either fight with clients about time, or just roll with it and produce great work regardless with no excuses. I just find it a lot easier to just shoot rather than fight about time. I always make recommendations for evening, but in reality, people are too busy and it often just simply does not work.


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picturecrazy
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May 03, 2012 12:12 |  #23

tnis0612 wrote in post #14373037 (external link)
I disagree that it's not relevant. They hired me based on my portfolio, so to give them something with a completely different look and feel than everything else in my portfolio is not necessarily going to make for happy clients.

Yes, they "needed" to shoot midday, but at what cost? Do they realize that by making that decision they will get a different style of photos and fewer photos because of setup time? I found that once I explained that to them, they decided they didn't need to shoot midday anymore.

I think putting no restrictions on time is absolutely ideal and that clearly works for you. But there are photographers like myself that have less experience, less gear, and charge less that need clients to understand that the time choice they make can impact the type and quantity of photos they receive. If they are fine with that, then we move forward and I will absolutely do the best I can and get them some great shots...if not, then we pick a time where I can be more sure I can get them results consistent with what they see on my site. With more experience I will hopefully have a chance to do the type of shooting that you showed in the post linked above, but I want to make sure it's for a client that knows what they are getting.

Your portfolio is your best work, under ideal conditions.

Reality is, ideal conditions is the exception rather than the norm. We can always make suggestions but in the end, ideal conditions are few and far between.

It doesn't matter how much gear or experience you have, conditions will ALWAYS impact your photos. That is just the reality of pro shooting. Don't overthink it, go in and do the best job you possibly can, and learn each time on how you can do it better. Because shooting in midday sun is something you're gonna find yourself doing over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. I KNOW I can produce much nicer work at dusk, but that shouldn't stop you from delivering good, solid shots midday either.

We are nor miracle makers, so don't expect yourself to be. I think you are putting more pressure and a higher standard on yourself than I do. Relax, people in general are pretty understanding as long as the lines of communications are kept open. So inform them of any potential concerns, but be as concise as possible. For example, "We can definitely shoot at the lake in the afternoon. The conditions will be difficult and are far from ideal but I'm ok with it if you are."

Nobody can create portfolio images on every single shoot. It's just not possible. So just concentrate on delivering consistent, solid work while maintaining excellent customer service and flexibility. You know, the quality of your photos are only a small part of the overall experience they'll remember you by.


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May 03, 2012 12:27 |  #24

picturecrazy wrote in post #14373312 (external link)
Your portfolio is your best work, under ideal conditions.

Reality is, ideal conditions is the exception rather than the norm. We can always make suggestions but in the end, ideal conditions are few and far between.

It doesn't matter how much gear or experience you have, conditions will ALWAYS impact your photos. That is just the reality of pro shooting. Don't overthink it, go in and do the best job you possibly can, and learn each time on how you can do it better. Because shooting in midday sun is something you're gonna find yourself doing over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. I KNOW I can produce much nicer work at dusk, but that shouldn't stop you from delivering good, solid shots midday either.

We are nor miracle makers, so don't expect yourself to be. I think you are putting more pressure and a higher standard on yourself than I do. Relax, people in general are pretty understanding as long as the lines of communications are kept open. So inform them of any potential concerns, but be as concise as possible. For example, "We can definitely shoot at the lake in the afternoon. The conditions will be difficult and are far from ideal but I'm ok with it if you are."

Nobody can create portfolio images on every single shoot. It's just not possible. So just concentrate on delivering consistent, solid work while maintaining excellent customer service and flexibility. You know, the quality of your photos are only a small part of the overall experience they'll remember you by.

I can definitely agree on this.

I recently did an engagement shoot in the midday sun. I advised against doing so but said that I would still do it for them if they wanted. The couple was ok and acknowledged (in writing) that if they didnt like the shoot and wanted a re-take later on, they would have to pay. They ended up liking it so I was happy either way.

I attached a couple that they liked. It wasn't the best conditions and I wasnt 100% satisfied on how they came out, but it met what they wanted so no issues there.


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Numenorean
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May 03, 2012 12:29 |  #25

If you're a professional, you should be able to shoot in any lighting condition.

However, it's nice to shoot in the golden hours. But if you don't have that option, then there you go.

What if someone has a wedding at 3pm outdoors? Do you tell them they need to reschedule their wedding?

What you have to do is find locations that work in the light you have. Unless you live in the middle of nowhere and there is flat land with nothing as far as you can see, then you should be fine.


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May 03, 2012 12:30 |  #26

Now that I got my beauty dish and a ND filter, I am dying to do a midday shoot with some sun. Right now all I get is cloudy skies though - makes for a boring sunset.


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May 03, 2012 12:31 |  #27

Numenorean wrote in post #14373454 (external link)
What if someone has a wedding at 3pm outdoors? Do you tell them they need to reschedule their wedding?

Thats the next one for me. The lighting will be a nightmare. 3 pm outdoor weddings should be banned :)




  
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Numenorean
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May 03, 2012 12:32 |  #28

Red Tie Photography wrote in post #14373467 (external link)
Now that I got my beauty dish and a ND filter, I am dying to do a midday shoot with some sun. Right now all I get is cloudy skies though - makes for a boring sunset.

What? Clouds make for great sunsets. Empty, cloudless skies are what make boring sunsets.


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Numenorean
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May 03, 2012 12:33 |  #29

gonzogolf wrote in post #14373474 (external link)
Thats the next one for me. The lighting will be a nightmare. 3 pm outdoor weddings should be banned :)

While I may agree with that...sometimes you have to shoot one.

I did one a while back and used a lot of high speed sync. Would the photos be better if it were later? Sure. But I did get good photos.


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May 03, 2012 12:41 |  #30

Numenorean wrote in post #14373480 (external link)
What? Clouds make for great sunsets. Empty, cloudless skies are what make boring sunsets.

True, when there is a break in the clouds. I was not fortunate to get that break.


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