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Thread started 23 May 2011 (Monday) 11:53
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J_TULLAR
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May 12, 2012 08:16 |  #691

airfrogusmc wrote in post #14420133 (external link)
I think you said and I quote "I think this is the ultimate black and white camera". Neither the camera you mentioned or an 8X10 view camera are well suited for street work but the there are real reasons most of the great street photographers have shot and still shoot with Leica M. DSLRs can do street work no doubt. You can do street work with a Hasselblad or an RZ to but the real gem on the street is a small discrete rangefinder and Leica M is about as good as it gets so proper tool for the job. I mean the lenses actually have decent DoF scales and there is no autofocus in the world faster than being pre-focused.

yea.... I also said "but alas its not compact nor a rangefinder...." I like how you cherry pick what I say lol. Cool beans my man if you enjoy shooting street at F/8 -Infinity then by all means keep on trucking. Leica's are not that discrete anymore, I get called out every time I shoot with my M because some one wants to have a conversation about leica blah blah blah. Annoying.


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airfrogusmc
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May 12, 2012 09:03 |  #692

J_TULLAR wrote in post #14420266 (external link)
yea.... I also said "but alas its not compact nor a rangefinder...." I like how you cherry pick what I say lol. Cool beans my man if you enjoy shooting street at F/8 -Infinity then by all means keep on trucking. Leica's are not that discrete anymore, I get called out every time I shoot with my M because some one wants to have a conversation about leica blah blah blah. Annoying.

Yeah M9s are not quite or a lot smaller than a 5DIII let alone a 1DsMkIII :lol::lol:

And I clearly pointed out and agreed that neither the 8X10 view camera or the option you posted would be an effective street choice. I love to watch guys out on the streets with the 1DsMkIII and 70-200 zooms trying to be discrete :lol::lol::lol:. Even a 5DII with a 35L is a lot less discrete than a Leica M with a 35mm lens and you knw that. And agin there is no auto focus in the world that can beat being pre-focused period. I rarely see street work that comes close to Bresson or Winogrand but when I do see work that I am impressed with its usually been shot with a range finder and in close using all the elements in the frame to help support the statement. Rarely am I empress with the images shot from two blocks away of people just on the street which is a lot of the so called street work I see today. ;)




  
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J_TULLAR
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May 12, 2012 09:55 |  #693

airfrogusmc wrote in post #14420400 (external link)
Yeah M9s are not quite or a lot smaller than a 5DIII let alone a 1DsMkIII :lol::lol:

And I clearly pointed out and agreed that neither the 8X10 view camera or the option you posted would be an effective street choice. I love to watch guys out on the streets with the 1DsMkIII and 70-200 zooms trying to be discrete :lol::lol::lol:. Even a 5DII with a 35L is a lot less discrete than a Leica M with a 35mm lens and you knw that. And agin there is no auto focus in the world that can beat being pre-focused period. I rarely see street work that comes close to Bresson or Winogrand but when I do see work that I am impressed with its usually been shot with a range finder and in close using all the elements in the frame to help support the statement. Rarely am I empress with the images shot from two blocks away of people just on the street which is a lot of the so called street work I see today. ;)

True, but is it discrete when your taking pictures in peoples faces? Is Eric Kim's style of shooting discrete... its all relative imho.


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bsaber
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May 12, 2012 12:56 |  #694

The thing that gets me is the price tag. It may be a good a black and white digital but definitely not worth that price.




  
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J_TULLAR
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May 12, 2012 14:03 |  #695

bsaber wrote in post #14421197 (external link)
The thing that gets me is the price tag. It may be a good a black and white digital but definitely not worth that price.

I share the same opinion.


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airfrogusmc
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May 12, 2012 14:56 |  #696

J_TULLAR wrote in post #14420558 (external link)
True, but is it discrete when your taking pictures in peoples faces? Is Eric Kim's style of shooting discrete... its all relative imho.

I'm not talking about Kim. It is discrete the way I would use it thats a reason for having one anyway for me and the way the Winogrand, Meyerowitz and Bresson used it.;) If you going to be in folks faces kinda defeats the purpose.




  
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airfrogusmc
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May 12, 2012 14:59 |  #697

I also agree its not cheap but I could see its appeal to a B&W street photographer and there a those that shoot B&W street out there. I have a bud that only shoots B&W film weddings. He prints all his work. He's very expensive and successful. I got a feeling he might take a look at this option.




  
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J_TULLAR
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May 13, 2012 08:30 |  #698

airfrogusmc wrote in post #14421562 (external link)
I'm not talking about Kim. It is discrete the way I would use it thats a reason for having one anyway for me and the way the Winogrand, Meyerowitz and Bresson used it.;) If you going to be in folks faces kinda defeats the purpose.

Winogrand was in peoples faces, he just used it as if he was fiddling with his camera. Basically it looked like he wasnt taking pictures even though he was, really fast. Actually I think Rolleiflex TLR's give a great discrete way of shooting as you look down no one knows your taking their picture, they think your just looking at your camera lol. Still trying to use my M8 for street but its just not the same as the M5 and M6 that I had, seems slower, and i get noticed more.


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airfrogusmc
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May 13, 2012 09:36 |  #699

J_TULLAR wrote in post #14424266 (external link)
Winogrand was in peoples faces, he just used it as if he was fiddling with his camera. Basically it looked like he wasnt taking pictures even though he was, really fast. Actually I think Rolleiflex TLR's give a great discrete way of shooting as you look down no one knows your taking their picture, they think your just looking at your camera lol. Still trying to use my M8 for street but its just not the same as the M5 and M6 that I had, seems slower, and i get noticed more.

People don't see you come'n a half block away with an M9 and a 35mm Leica M lens like they do if you walking around with a big 1DsMkIII or even a 5D with a 70-200 or even a 35L He had disciplined his vision so because he used the same camera and lens and shot 5+ rolls of film every day of his life, he got to a point where he could see what the camera was taking without actually raising it to his eye so his technique was a lot more discrete than some guy with a much larger DSLR standing looking through the viewfinder and try to focus thus not being very discrete.

The very reason most have to use long telephoto lenses to get anything remotely resembling discrete but missing the thing that all the greats have/had in their work things like repeating shapes, tone, implied motion and everything else in the frame supporting the visual statement. People didn't even know for sure if he had taken their photo until after it was taken and even then they didn't know most of the time they didn't know for sure.

Winogrand like Bresson, Meyerowitz and as with the other great street photographers the camera is an extension of him and his vision. Discretion is a one reason why he and many of the great street photographer use Leica M. They even wrote some about that very thing. ;)




  
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airfrogusmc
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May 13, 2012 09:47 |  #700

J_TULLAR wrote in post #14424266 (external link)
Winogrand was in peoples faces, he just used it as if he was fiddling with his camera. Basically it looked like he wasnt taking pictures even though he was, really fast. Actually I think Rolleiflex TLR's give a great discrete way of shooting as you look down no one knows your taking their picture, they think your just looking at your camera lol. Still trying to use my M8 for street but its just not the same as the M5 and M6 that I had, seems slower, and i get noticed more.

"If God had wanted us to photograph with a 2 1/4 by 2 1/4 camera, he would have put eyes on our bellies." - Henri Cartier-Bresson

"For us the camera is a tool, the extension of our eye, not a pretty little mechanical toy. It is sufficient that we should feel at ease with the camera best adapted for our purpose. Adjustments of the camera – such as setting the aperture and the speed – should become reflexes, like changing gear in a car. The real problem is one of intelligence and sensitivity." - Henri Cartier-Bresson

Proper tool for the job and theres not a better camera for the street than a rangefinder and Leica is about as good as those get.




  
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May 13, 2012 14:43 |  #701

airfrogusmc wrote in post #14424528 (external link)
"If God had wanted us to photograph with a 2 1/4 by 2 1/4 camera, he would have put eyes on our bellies." - Henri Cartier-Bresson

"For us the camera is a tool, the extension of our eye, not a pretty little mechanical toy. It is sufficient that we should feel at ease with the camera best adapted for our purpose. Adjustments of the camera – such as setting the aperture and the speed – should become reflexes, like changing gear in a car. The real problem is one of intelligence and sensitivity." - Henri Cartier-Bresson

Proper tool for the job and theres not a better camera for the street than a rangefinder and Leica is about as good as those get.

Exactly which is why Bresson would laugh at a hermes M9 lol. Leica is starting to go back to the 80's again which was a rough period for them. All these special editions and retarded prices lol.


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May 13, 2012 18:50 |  #702

I've read this thread all trough and I gotta say I'm over the fence. I see you guys answered these questins many times but ai just gotta ask them again. Sorry for that.

I've planned going FF in 2012 and have the money to do so. I was thinking about a nice 5D3 with some L glass, but then I went to the Leica store and tried the M9. Man, that feels nice! Lovely pictures with a 50 Lux!

My main concern is the sensor. Its so dated and CCD never had the sex appeal to me. I shoot quite a bit of low light so way too much noise is a concern.
The operations, AF and gimmicks dont really sell the5D3 for me, so, do you guys think I'd be better served by a M9? Will I miss the lower noise, better color depth and lower ISO from the 5D3?


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airfrogusmc
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May 13, 2012 19:04 |  #703

J_TULLAR wrote in post #14425631 (external link)
Exactly which is why Bresson would laugh at a hermes M9 lol. Leica is starting to go back to the 80's again which was a rough period for them. All these special editions and retarded prices lol.


Again you keep saying Leica like its the only over priced camera out there. The funny part is the 1DsMkIII is the same price as an M9 which is the real tool here and the new Monochrome which if your a B&W photographer can be a great tool and back in when the high end Canon pro camera was $500 the Leica M was 1500 so who is the one that is really priced outta line. Leica is smart enough to realize that if they make certain cameras that collectors will snap them up as investments. Thats smart and can actually help the bottom line and keep prices lower on M9s and M7s right? I mean if you read any of the links I posted Canon and Nikon come from very high volume loose QC and Leica are made in much lower batches with much tighter tolerances and QC thus they are more expensive but still the same price as the high top of the Canon line but at one time Leica was 3 times more so this would make the M9 look like the real bargan.

Why a B&W camera only?
http://www.slack.co.uk​/slack/Monochrom.html (external link)

Ya didn't read the Canon Rumors review so I doubt you will give this a read.

Oh and Leica was having some trouble before the M9 because they were late like Hasselblad to the digital game but have you seen the bottom line since the M9? Much better I'd say.




  
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airfrogusmc
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May 13, 2012 19:07 |  #704

Alex_Venom wrote in post #14426489 (external link)
I've read this thread all trough and I gotta say I'm over the fence. I see you guys answered these questins many times but ai just gotta ask them again. Sorry for that.

I've planned going FF in 2012 and have the money to do so. I was thinking about a nice 5D3 with some L glass, but then I went to the Leica store and tried the M9. Man, that feels nice! Lovely pictures with a 50 Lux!

My main concern is the sensor. Its so dated and CCD never had the sex appeal to me. I shoot quite a bit of low light so way too much noise is a concern.
The operations, AF and gimmicks dont really sell the5D3 for me, so, do you guys think I'd be better served by a M9? Will I miss the lower noise, better color depth and lower ISO from the 5D3?

I say go Leica. The glass alone is a good reason.




  
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May 13, 2012 20:07 |  #705

Alex_Venom wrote in post #14426489 (external link)
I've read this thread all trough and I gotta say I'm over the fence. I see you guys answered these questins many times but ai just gotta ask them again. Sorry for that.

I've planned going FF in 2012 and have the money to do so. I was thinking about a nice 5D3 with some L glass, but then I went to the Leica store and tried the M9. Man, that feels nice! Lovely pictures with a 50 Lux!

My main concern is the sensor. Its so dated and CCD never had the sex appeal to me. I shoot quite a bit of low light so way too much noise is a concern.
The operations, AF and gimmicks dont really sell the5D3 for me, so, do you guys think I'd be better served by a M9? Will I miss the lower noise, better color depth and lower ISO from the 5D3?

I sold most of my DSLR kit to get the M9 and 50 cron. One thing I do "regret" sometimes is the lack of high ISO. A lot of times 2500 just doesn't cut it. If shoot in low light a lot, I say think very carefully about it. If you think 2500 ISO and 1.4 or lower aperture will be enough, then by all means go for it. You definitely won't regret it. I sure haven't. And as Allen said, the glass alone is worth it.




  
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