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FORUMS Leica Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Leica Cameras 
Thread started 23 May 2011 (Monday) 11:53
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Leica Lovers Anonymous

 
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May 13, 2012 22:26 |  #706

The way I shoot people just never know most of the time. It's scale focused, moderately stopped down with a wide angle (21/25/28). I shoot from the hip or quickly bring it to my eye to frame, click and back down it goes. Doesn't hurt that I use a leather half case, so it's a bit more disguised. Still... People that are looking will find you. Just this past weekend at a fair a fellow photog queried me on my setup. Granted, I was shooting with a Noctilux and ND filter so I stuck out just for that.  :p

8x10 camera? Sure - that would be killer. But not at all "portable." And where I live, there's nothing worth capturing at such resolution. ;)


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J_TULLAR
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May 14, 2012 06:37 |  #707

airfrogusmc wrote in post #14426540 (external link)
Again you keep saying Leica like its the only over priced camera out there. The funny part is the 1DsMkIII is the same price as an M9 which is the real tool here and the new Monochrome which if your a B&W photographer can be a great tool and back in when the high end Canon pro camera was $500 the Leica M was 1500 so who is the one that is really priced outta line. Leica is smart enough to realize that if they make certain cameras that collectors will snap them up as investments. Thats smart and can actually help the bottom line and keep prices lower on M9s and M7s right? I mean if you read any of the links I posted Canon and Nikon come from very high volume loose QC and Leica are made in much lower batches with much tighter tolerances and QC thus they are more expensive but still the same price as the high top of the Canon line but at one time Leica was 3 times more so this would make the M9 look like the real bargan.

Why a B&W camera only?
http://www.slack.co.uk​/slack/Monochrom.html (external link)

Ya didn't read the Canon Rumors review so I doubt you will give this a read.

Oh and Leica was having some trouble before the M9 because they were late like Hasselblad to the digital game but have you seen the bottom line since the M9? Much better I'd say.

I dont know if you just choose to not read what I say or maybe your just ignoring me to state the same things over again :rolleyes:. I just said I understand the monochrom, I dont understand the 230K LCD or $1000 mark up. Also a 1DS3 came out in 2007 and was state of the art back then and now theres a 1DX, when has a new leica Digital M been state of the art at anything besides cramming a Kodak FF sensor in it? Still same old LCD, needs 6 bit conversion for old lenses so they dont have colored vignette, Range finder is a .67, Slow buffer, takes 4-6 weeks for warranty work, SD card problems, shutter jams, glass over sensor cracks, vertical lines on sensor, banding at high iso, lcd screens died... Thats alot of great QC leica! Regardless all manufactures have problems, but at this cost shouldnt their product have higher quality control than that? Obviously you need to read the problems Leica rangefinders have and not initial impression reviews from canon rumors lol. My point and will be my point from the start is that leica is out pricing their own loyal base, they are making the cameras a fashion statement more than anything. If you think the price is worth it fine, buy it. All those old remarks on reliable, built like a tank, hand made... thats during the film days! They no longer apply now in the digital age... I mean crap the M-9 is assembled in germany, they get parts made in japan, america and spain! I still love Leica rangefinders and will continue to use them and I know the benefits of the system but Im not blind to the fact that they overcharge and the QC is down. Its not perfect but nothing is. BTW nice qoute of bresson, guess we shouldnt shoot from the hip cus eyes arent there lol.

END/INCOHERENT RANT


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May 14, 2012 07:02 |  #708

Thank you for the input, guys! It is good to know you don´t regret going Leica. I hope I won´t regret as well, but reading the last post got me a little worried:

J_TULLAR wrote in post #14428507 (external link)
I dont know if you just choose to not read what I say or maybe your just ignoring me to state the same things over again :rolleyes:. I just said I understand the monochrom, I dont understand the 230K LCD or $1000 mark up. Also a 1DS3 came out in 2007 and was state of the art back then and now theres a 1DX, when has a new leica Digital M been state of the art at anything besides cramming a Kodak FF sensor in it? Still same old LCD, needs 6 bit conversion for old lenses so they dont have colored vignette, Range finder is a .67, Slow buffer, takes 4-6 weeks for warranty work, SD card problems, shutter jams, glass over sensor cracks, vertical lines on sensor, banding at high iso, lcd screens died... Thats alot of great QC leica! Regardless all manufactures have problems, but at this cost shouldnt their product have higher quality control than that? Obviously you need to read the problems Leica rangefinders have and not initial impression reviews from canon rumors lol. My point and will be my point from the start is that leica is out pricing their own loyal base, they are making the cameras a fashion statement more than anything. If you think the price is worth it fine, buy it. All those old remarks on reliable, built like a tank, hand made... thats during the film days! They no longer apply now in the digital age... I mean crap the M-9 is assembled in germany, they get parts made in japan, america and spain! I still love Leica rangefinders and will continue to use them and I know the benefits of the system but Im not blind to the fact that they overcharge and the QC is down. Its not perfect but nothing is. BTW nice qoute of bresson, guess we shouldnt shoot from the hip cus eyes arent there lol.

END/INCOHERENT RANT

I searched a bit over the net and could find it´s not that common, but it happened more than once, so, kinda scary... :confused:

I heard the M10 will be launched on Photokina but no definitive words on it yet. I can wait till September, though...
The 230K pixels LCD is really annoying. I remember having a hard time evaluationg focus while in the Leica store. At that price range (here in Brazil a brand new M9 sells for like 12K USD) it wouldn´t hurt having some kind of Apple Retina Display on it :p


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airfrogusmc
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May 14, 2012 08:17 |  #709

J_TULLAR wrote in post #14428507 (external link)
I dont know if you just choose to not read what I say or maybe your just ignoring me to state the same things over again :rolleyes:. I just said I understand the monochrom, I dont understand the 230K LCD or $1000 mark up. Also a 1DS3 came out in 2007 and was state of the art back then and now theres a 1DX, when has a new leica Digital M been state of the art at anything besides cramming a Kodak FF sensor in it? Still same old LCD, needs 6 bit conversion for old lenses so they dont have colored vignette, Range finder is a .67, Slow buffer, takes 4-6 weeks for warranty work, SD card problems, shutter jams, glass over sensor cracks, vertical lines on sensor, banding at high iso, lcd screens died... Thats alot of great QC leica! Regardless all manufactures have problems, but at this cost shouldnt their product have higher quality control than that? Obviously you need to read the problems Leica rangefinders have and not initial impression reviews from canon rumors lol. My point and will be my point from the start is that leica is out pricing their own loyal base, they are making the cameras a fashion statement more than anything. If you think the price is worth it fine, buy it. All those old remarks on reliable, built like a tank, hand made... thats during the film days! They no longer apply now in the digital age... I mean crap the M-9 is assembled in germany, they get parts made in japan, america and spain! I still love Leica rangefinders and will continue to use them and I know the benefits of the system but Im not blind to the fact that they overcharge and the QC is down. Its not perfect but nothing is. BTW nice qoute of bresson, guess we shouldnt shoot from the hip cus eyes arent there lol.

END/INCOHERENT RANT

The problems that you are describing neither of my friends have expeineced. The fact that I have had far more trouble with first my 5Dcs and now my 5DII than either one of them with any one of their M8s or M9s well like I said take a stroll around here and see how bad the new 5DIII sucks well you get the drift and QC is down even ( and I'm not saying it is down) if that is the case its still a much, much better than the big 2.

Again I agree they're expensive but if the top end Canon professional camera was $500 when the Leica M was $1500 and now the high end Canon is the same price as the Leica M camera who is the one really overcharging. ;):lol:

Also if indeed they were as overpriced as you say they wouldn't be selling as well as they are and they if they were as prone to breakdowns as you say the resale market wouldn't bare the high return now would it? Again spend 8K on a 1DsMkIII and see how much its worth in 5 years and do the same with an M9.

Also did ya even read any of this on the Monochrome stuff I posted?
Did ya read this and look at the images?
"Quite simply, it’s a revelation. Quite a new experience - even at 10,000 ISO the small amount of grain is lovely, and reminiscent of fine grained film rather than digital."




  
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May 14, 2012 08:19 |  #710

Alex_Venom wrote in post #14428561 (external link)
Thank you for the input, guys! It is good to know you don´t regret going Leica. I hope I won´t regret as well, but reading the last post got me a little worried:

I searched a bit over the net and could find it´s not that common, but it happened more than once, so, kinda scary... :confused:

I heard the M10 will be launched on Photokina but no definitive words on it yet. I can wait till September, though...
The 230K pixels LCD is really annoying. I remember having a hard time evaluationg focus while in the Leica store. At that price range (here in Brazil a brand new M9 sells for like 12K USD) it wouldn´t hurt having some kind of Apple Retina Display on it :p

Its not common for most but does happen. warranty is exceptional but be prepared for a good wait! Its a niche camera and is splended for what it does, but for other types of photography you cant beat a dslr. If you like journalism, street, and catching moments then by all means get a leica.


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May 14, 2012 08:37 |  #711

airfrogusmc wrote in post #14428832 (external link)
The problems that you are describing neither of my friends have expeineced. The fact that I have had far more trouble with first my 5Dcs and now my 5DII than either one of them with any one of their M8s or M9s well like I said take a stroll around here and see how bad the new 5DIII sucks well you get the drift and QC is down even ( and I'm not saying it is down) if that is the case its still a much, much better than the big 2.

Again I agree they're expensive but if the top end Canon professional camera was $500 when the Leica M was $1500 and now the high end Canon is the same price as the Leica M camera who is the one really overcharging. ;):lol:

Also if indeed they were as overpriced as you say they wouldn't be selling as well as they are and they if they were as prone to breakdowns as you say the resale market wouldn't bare the high return now would it? Again spend 8K on a 1DsMkIII and see how much its worth in 5 years and do the same with an M9.

Also did ya even read any of this on the Monochrome stuff I posted?
Did ya read this and look at the images?
"Quite simply, it’s a revelation. Quite a new experience - even at 10,000 ISO the small amount of grain is lovely, and reminiscent of fine grained film rather than digital."

So your two friends dont have problems... okay. I had a problem with mine right off the bat and I bought it brand spanking new (range finder mis aligned). It took Leica 3 weeks just to fix that! No questions asked however which was awesome and they cleaned the sensor and updated the firmware. Well a 1ds3 in mint condition with low shutter count 5 years old still sells used for around 4500-4900 dollars, a used leica M9 in mint condition with low shutter count sells for around 5900 and its close to 3 years old. Both arent that bad in resale really. I havent had one problem with any of my canons so your argument is moot with your Two friends lol. Like I said I think the monochrom is a GREAT IDEA!!! I dont know why I have to repeat that, but there are other options for Black and White... such as 35mm/MF rangefinder Film! Black and White film imho is still beats Digital Black and White. They are selling well because this is Leica's first FF digital RF, there is no competition... NONE! I just know that if Fuji Film, Nikon, Canon make a FF digital range finder they would just kill Leica sales. Remember they all use to make Range finder film cameras, Fuji still makes RF film cameras. The M10 needs to step up its game! 920K LCD at least lol. This launch has been quite disappointing by most of the rangefinder forum guys. Wheres the M10? Wheres the X2 with 35 1.4 lens? Wheres the updated 50 f/2 summicron that was suppose to be $3300? Wheres the mirrorless system they said they were working on? What happened to the R system? R system guys got boned hard lol. Btw I heard the same thing from a camera called a d3s.... 12800 is a revelation! Fine grain like Film........lol.

You know what screw this! Lets just get back to taking pictures with our Leicas!


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airfrogusmc
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May 14, 2012 09:06 |  #712

J_TULLAR wrote in post #14428935 (external link)
So your two friends dont have problems... okay. I had a problem with mine right off the bat and I bought it brand spanking new (range finder mis aligned). It took Leica 3 weeks just to fix that! No questions asked however which was awesome and they cleaned the sensor and updated the firmware. Well a 1ds3 in mint condition with low shutter count 5 years old still sells used for around 4500-4900 dollars, a used leica M9 in mint condition with low shutter count sells for around 5900 and its close to 3 years old. Both arent that bad in resale really. I havent had one problem with any of my canons so your argument is moot with your Two friends lol. Like I said I think the monochrom is a GREAT IDEA!!! I dont know why I have to repeat that, but there are other options for Black and White... such as 35mm/MF rangefinder Film! Black and White film imho is still beats Digital Black and White. They are selling well because this is Leica's first FF digital RF, there is no competition... NONE! I just know that if Fuji Film, Nikon, Canon make a FF digital range finder they would just kill Leica sales. Remember they all use to make Range finder film cameras, Fuji still makes RF film cameras. The M10 needs to step up its game! 920K LCD at least lol. This launch has been quite disappointing by most of the rangefinder forum guys. Wheres the M10? Wheres the X2 with 35 1.4 lens? Wheres the updated 50 f/2 summicron that was suppose to be $3300? Wheres the mirrorless system they said they were working on? What happened to the R system? R system guys got boned hard lol. Btw I heard the same thing from a camera called a d3s.... 12800 is a revelation! Fine grain like Film........lol.

You know what screw this! Lets just get back to taking pictures with our Leicas!

Look at the link I posted. The images from the Monochrome look pretty sweet to me. And most I know that buy Leica M do so for that great Leica M glass. I don't know about you but I wouldn't buy Leica R. Their M glass is and their rangefinders are what I think of with Leica. So you don't really like rangefinders or Leica so shoot with your DSLR but those that hate are gonna hate and all ya gotta do is go to the forums and see it :lol:

They are just tools find one that works for you but the monochrome you are crapping on something, you have never shot with for sure, looks like a great B&W camera. And its clear you never went to or read the link I posted and thats evident with this comment "12800 is a revelation! Fine grain like Film........lol:" because of what is said in the next sentence in the link. There is no perfect camera and there never will be so the search for it will drive you broke and/or nuts.

Find and stay with tools that work with your vision. My experience is the Leica Ms I have used and have seen first hand are far more reliable than the DSLR on the market today. I have CPS send me a 1DsMkIII that was DOA last time I asked for a loan so they all have problems but like I said my first hand experience is my Canons have had more problems than the M8s and M9s that I have real experience with.

So hate on everyone but if you are looking for perfection it ain't out there and there is not a better camera for candids/street and its not bad for landscapes than Leica M. Its for those photographer like me that don't want or need FPS and auto everything. There are already many choices out there if thats your thing.




  
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May 14, 2012 11:45 |  #713

airfrogusmc wrote in post #14429054 (external link)
Look at the link I posted. The images from the Monochrome look pretty sweet to me. And most I know that buy Leica M do so for that great Leica M glass. I don't know about you but I wouldn't buy Leica R. Their M glass is and their rangefinders are what I think of with Leica. So you don't really like rangefinders or Leica so shoot with your DSLR but those that hate are gonna hate and all ya gotta do is go to the forums and see it :lol:

They are just tools find one that works for you but the monochrome you are crapping on something, you have never shot with for sure, looks like a great B&W camera. And its clear you never went to or read the link I posted and thats evident with this comment "12800 is a revelation! Fine grain like Film........lol:" because of what is said in the next sentence in the link. There is no perfect camera and there never will be so the search for it will drive you broke and/or nuts.

Find and stay with tools that work with your vision. My experience is the Leica Ms I have used and have seen first hand are far more reliable than the DSLR on the market today. I have CPS send me a 1DsMkIII that was DOA last time I asked for a loan so they all have problems but like I said my first hand experience is my Canons have had more problems than the M8s and M9s that I have real experience with.

So hate on everyone but if you are looking for perfection it ain't out there and there is not a better camera for candids/street and its not bad for landscapes than Leica M. Its for those photographer like me that don't want or need FPS and auto everything. There are already many choices out there if thats your thing.

AHAHAHAHAHA Are you freaking serious!!! Im sorry if this insults you but you seriously have a comprehension problem. I have repeatedly said in different threads the the M-Monochrom is a great Idea and have no other problem with it than price! PRICE!!!! OMG!!! I actually have a M camera and use it daily!!! How about you? I know theres no perfect camera but my god you drink so much kool aid its not even funny!!! I havent hated on anyone! I only said I hate their marketing and price point that is all! Their glass is phenomenal but for the price however... I think its becoming border line ridiculous. I read your link and yet you dont even read my own responses. Im done with you! You just dont even comprehend what I or others on Rangefinder forums are even stating LOL. Im sorry man but you just make me laugh so hard lol.

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airfrogusmc
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May 14, 2012 12:11 |  #714

But again the price over the years hasn't gone up as much for Leica as it has for Canon and I didn't see you complaining about Canon only Leica. Its what it is. This stuff is only going one way and ****'n aint gonna change it. Looked at the price of Hasselblad lately?

I actually will be shooting some with my buddies M9 this weekend. I let ya know how over priced I think is.

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May 14, 2012 12:30 |  #715

airfrogusmc wrote in post #14429875 (external link)
But again the price over the years hasn't gone up as much for Leica as it has for Canon and I didn't see you complaining about Canon only Leica. Its what it is. This stuff is only going one way and ****'n aint gonna change it. Looked at the price of Hasselblad lately?

I actually will be shooting some with my buddies M9 this weekend. I let ya know how over priced I think is.
QUOTED IMAGE

Really? I believe I complained about the 70-200mkii price, the 24-70mkii price and the 5dmk3 price as well... Look up the threads lol. And actually the price has gone up more on leica lenses than canons. How bout in 2009 when the Noctilux went from 6500 to 10000! And is now priced at 11,500! I dont know of one canon lens that has almost doubled in price in 3 years.... or a 50f/2 that was 2k and is now 7.2k rofl.


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airfrogusmc
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May 14, 2012 12:57 |  #716

J_TULLAR wrote in post #14429973 (external link)
Really? I believe I complained about the 70-200mkii price, the 24-70mkii price and the 5dmk3 price as well... Look up the threads lol. And actually the price has gone up more on leica lenses than canons. How bout in 2009 when the Noctilux went from 6500 to 10000! And is now priced at 11,500! I dont know of one canon lens that has almost doubled in price in 3 years.... or a 50f/2 that was 2k and is now 7.2k rofl.

:rolleyes: Then don't shoot with Leica :lol::lol:
Gas was once 25 cents a gallon in the US to.




  
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May 14, 2012 13:02 |  #717

airfrogusmc wrote in post #14430141 (external link)
:rolleyes: Then don't shoot with Leica :lol::lol:
Gas was once 25 cents a gallon in the US to.

Many cant now due to the 15-20% increases every year, which was my point originally :rolleyes: Used or aftermarket is the only way for some now. But hey it will hit you too eventually, when a m12 costs 20K and a 35 f/2.5 summarit is 7k lol. I traded in my gas guzzler lol. But I live in Bahrain currently were gas is 75 cents a gallon! BTW nice way to keep dodging all my points :rolleyes:


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May 14, 2012 13:29 as a reply to  @ J_TULLAR's post |  #718

Alex_Venom wrote in post #14428561 (external link)
Thank you for the input, guys! It is good to know you don´t regret going Leica. I hope I won´t regret as well, but reading the last post got me a little worried:

I searched a bit over the net and could find it´s not that common, but it happened more than once, so, kinda scary... :confused:

I heard the M10 will be launched on Photokina but no definitive words on it yet. I can wait till September, though...
The 230K pixels LCD is really annoying. I remember having a hard time evaluationg focus while in the Leica store. At that price range (here in Brazil a brand new M9 sells for like 12K USD) it wouldn´t hurt having some kind of Apple Retina Display on it :p


Most of the problems have been fixed now and to be fair, they only seem to happen to a batch of cameras within a certain time range. Unfortunately for me, my M9 was one of those that had the glass over the sensor break. Good thing though is that Leica not only fixed it but repaired all the cosmetic damage that had accumulated over use at no cost. Worked flawlessly since :)

On the other hand, I've had problems with nearly every Canon camera that I've owned. 5Dc mirror problem, 1Ds2 randomly freezing up (which Canon was never able to fix despite replacing the main PCB board FOUR TIMES and I ended up trading it), 30D shutter failed in one month, and that's only the problems with camera bodies...

The point is every camera/manufacturer will have problems but those are rare. You hear a lot about them because people who have these problems will complain about them on forums and other places.

With the incredibly crappy screen evaluating focus can be difficult at first. Once you learn how it renders things though, it becomes easy to tell if you're in focus or not. It takes some getting use to and I REALLY hope they add a MUCH improved LCD to the M10.




  
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May 14, 2012 14:03 |  #719

I picked up an RF again in late 2008 after being away for something like 25 years. Little did I know what it would lead to! Not all that long after (months) I picked up a used M8. Loved it. Bought myself a new M9 the following year and been using it ever since. Never once had any issues with either body, or Leica lenses (though I can't say the same for Zeiss ZM lenses).

That doesn't mean I hate SLRs or think Leica is The One True Answer. I still use SLRs for things like macro, telephoto, etc. It's just that I use them a LOT less than I used to. And honestly, for what *I* shoot, I don't miss the weight/bulk. But when I need a particular feature, I'll grab an SLR as needed without question. It's not about RF vs. SLR, but rather the proper tool for the job at hand.

People that poo-poo the M Monochrom, I suggest - just don't get it. It's not a camera for most of us. But if your primary medium is B&W (film or digital) it serves its purpose. And it's not "just a B&W camera." It's got an awful lot more resolution and light sensitivity due to the lack of a bayer filter/interpolation..​. So much so that it's bordering on MF quality - especially with that new lens.

The price(s), well, like I said... :eek:


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airfrogusmc
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May 14, 2012 16:51 |  #720

J_TULLAR wrote in post #14430167 (external link)
Many cant now due to the 15-20% increases every year, which was my point originally :rolleyes: Used or aftermarket is the only way for some now. But hey it will hit you too eventually, when a m12 costs 20K and a 35 f/2.5 summarit is 7k lol. I traded in my gas guzzler lol. But I live in Bahrain currently were gas is 75 cents a gallon! BTW nice way to keep dodging all my points :rolleyes:

I haven't dodged anything. Leicas have always been expensive. Like I already pointed out they were 3 times more than Canons top pro camera at one time. Looks like Canon has caught up. And the beautiful thing about Leica is you don't have to buy their new glass. If you have older Leica lenses or buy'm used they work just fine not like Canon ;). If you don't like the price don't. It like everything else is only going up.




  
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