Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 22 Jan 2012 (Sunday) 09:10
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Are Amateurs destroying Photography

 
Numenorean
Cream of the Crop
5,013 posts
Likes: 27
Joined Feb 2011
     
May 17, 2012 12:07 |  #736

cdiver2 wrote in post #14446012 (external link)
I beg to differ if you are accepting money to provide a service then you are employed ergo an employee of the person providing the money.
buying a album in a store is like comparing apples to oranges, no direct payment to the musician. If I pay a musician to play and record a track for me then he is my employee and plays it the way I want, the rights to that track are mine.
A painter paints in my colors I am the employer
That is my view and I will do photographs for friends/family and there are no rules/laws to say one can not do this so moaning about amateurs undercutting you is like Ping in to the wind.

I don't give a damn what you do, because it won't affect me. I'm not complaining about amateurs. They can undercut me in price, but they also vastly undercut me in quality - which is the reason why I still have people that want my services. I own copyrights to whatever images I take unless there is a contract that specifies otherwise. Period. That's how this works - it's the law. You are hiring my services and expertise. You get a product. You do not get to copy that product however you wish. I HIGHLY doubt that if you hired a musician to play and record a track for you, that it would include the ability for you to take that track and copy it and sell it. If it would, it would cost a lot. Same with photography - if you want the copyrights, I'll certainly sell them to you - just be prepared to add another 0 to the end of the bill to get them.

I'm not saying that YOU can't give away your copyrights. You certainly can, and if you value your work that little, fine I don't care - again that doesn't affect me. But to think that professional photographers should do this as well is just ridiculous.


Gear List

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
cdiver2
Goldmember
Avatar
1,032 posts
Likes: 67
Joined Feb 2012
Location: Safety Harbor Fl
     
May 17, 2012 12:20 |  #737

Lowner wrote in post #14446035 (external link)
Arguing this in various directions does not escape the fact that anyone offering a service, like a wedding 'tog, must make everything crystal clear to a budding client. Just because it seems obvious to him or her, it may not be to someone who may well have no experience whatsoever in this field.

Agreed




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
cdiver2
Goldmember
Avatar
1,032 posts
Likes: 67
Joined Feb 2012
Location: Safety Harbor Fl
     
May 17, 2012 12:32 |  #738

Numenorean wrote in post #14446060 (external link)
I don't give a damn what you do, because it won't affect me. I'm not complaining about amateurs. They can undercut me in price, but they also vastly undercut me in quality - which is the reason why I still have people that want my services. I own copyrights to whatever images I take unless there is a contract that specifies otherwise. Period. That's how this works - it's the law. You are hiring my services and expertise. You get a product. You do not get to copy that product however you wish. I HIGHLY doubt that if you hired a musician to play and record a track for you, that it would include the ability for you to take that track and copy it and sell it. If it would, it would cost a lot.
Same with photography - if you want the copyrights, I'll certainly sell them to you - just be prepared to add another 0 to the end of the bill

to get them.

I'm not saying that YOU can't give away your copyrights. You certainly can, and if you value your work that little, fine I don't care - again that doesn't affect me. But to think that professional photographers should do this as well is just ridiculous.

That's ok by me just make it clear up front so that I can decline your offer instead of hiding it in small print




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Numenorean
Cream of the Crop
5,013 posts
Likes: 27
Joined Feb 2011
     
May 17, 2012 12:39 |  #739

cdiver2 wrote in post #14446199 (external link)
That's ok by me just make it clear up front so that I can decline your offer instead of hiding it in small print

I go over every section of my contract with all my clients and explain what it means in plain terms before I have them sign it and ask if there are any questions. It clearly states what rights they have and what rights I have.


Gear List

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
moose10101
registered smartass
1,667 posts
Gallery: 10 photos
Likes: 243
Joined May 2010
Location: Maryland, USA
     
May 17, 2012 13:00 |  #740

cdiver2 wrote in post #14446012 (external link)
I beg to differ if you are accepting money to provide a service then you are employed ergo an employee of the person providing the money.

Congratulations, you're on the hook for state and federal unemployment tax, social security tax and workers compensation/disabilit​y premiums to cover your "employee".

If you're not paying those, you're not an employer, and no amount of hand-waving will make you one or make you the owner of the copyrights.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
brokensocial
Senior Member
481 posts
Joined Apr 2012
Location: Chicago, Illinois
     
May 17, 2012 13:19 |  #741

Worry less about the amateurs and worry more about what you can do for your business.


[mike and frida] photography - we shoot stuff.
chicago wedding photography (external link) | chicago wedding photography blog (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
dgrPhotos
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
7,501 posts
Gallery: 38 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 50
Joined Apr 2011
Location: Illinois
     
May 17, 2012 13:40 |  #742

JFK? :lol:




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
cdiver2
Goldmember
Avatar
1,032 posts
Likes: 67
Joined Feb 2012
Location: Safety Harbor Fl
     
May 17, 2012 13:47 |  #743

moose10101 wrote in post #14446324 (external link)
Congratulations, you're on the hook for state and federal unemployment tax, social security tax and workers compensation/disabilit​y premiums to cover your "employee".

If you're not paying those, you're not an employer, and no amount of hand-waving will make you one or make you the owner of the copyrights.

Funny I am a contract employee I work when they have a problem and when the problem is sorted out job done. I pay my own tax and social security, I can say yes I will come in or not available at the moment but once I say yes the company is my employer in the space of time it takes to get the job done.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
moose10101
registered smartass
1,667 posts
Gallery: 10 photos
Likes: 243
Joined May 2010
Location: Maryland, USA
     
May 17, 2012 14:34 |  #744

cdiver2 wrote in post #14446547 (external link)
Funny I am a contract employee I work when they have a problem and when the problem is sorted out job done. I pay my own tax and social security, I can say yes I will come in or not available at the moment but once I say yes the company is my employer in the space of time it takes to get the job done.

You're right, that is funny. You're not an employee.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
banquetbear
Goldmember
Avatar
1,598 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Likes: 146
Joined Apr 2010
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
     
May 18, 2012 05:50 |  #745

cdiver2 wrote in post #14446012 (external link)
I beg to differ if you are accepting money to provide a service then you are employed ergo an employee of the person providing the money.
buying a album in a store is like comparing apples to oranges, no direct payment to the musician. If I pay a musician to play and record a track for me then he is my employee and plays it the way I want, the rights to that track are mine.
A painter paints in my colors I am the employer
That is my view and I will do photographs for friends/family and there are no rules/laws to say one can not do this so moaning about amateurs undercutting you is like Ping in to the wind.

...your post would have been shorter if you had simply typed:

"I reject reality and substitute my own!"


www.bigmark.co.nzexternal link

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
cdiver2
Goldmember
Avatar
1,032 posts
Likes: 67
Joined Feb 2012
Location: Safety Harbor Fl
     
May 18, 2012 07:36 |  #746

My reality. If I work for reward be it money or something else that makes the person paying me my employer, ie I am employing you to photograph my wedding. Therefore the person receiving the money for work must be a employee, albeit for a short period of time.
If the person that hires you tells you to take certain photographs or not take certain photographs do you do what they tell you to do or just do whatever you want. Now I am finished with this thread when people have no valid input to support there views and start making it personal it is time to stop before it gets out of hand.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
mikeinctown
Goldmember
2,100 posts
Likes: 229
Joined May 2012
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
     
May 18, 2012 07:40 |  #747

cdiver, you are a contractor, not an employee. An employee gets benefits and salary from the specific company. You as a contractor are getting your pay and benefits from your company, and in turn they are invoicing the company you are doing the work for. The work you do may be the property of the company paying the invoice, but that does not make you an employee.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Mikey1
Member
Avatar
213 posts
Joined Jan 2012
Location: Milner, Ga
     
May 18, 2012 08:06 |  #748

thread closure in 5...4...3....2...


Canon 50D--40D--70-200 F2.8L--50MM 1.8--85 1.8 USM--18-55IS--430EXII x 2--RF602s--AMBITION

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bear ­ Dale
"I get 'em pregnant"
Avatar
4,746 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 391
Joined Mar 2009
Location: Australia
     
May 18, 2012 08:15 |  #749

mikeinctown wrote in post #14444713 (external link)
more and more people are shooting themselves

Wow the economy must be getting worse.


Cheers,
Bear Dale

Some of my photos featured on Flickr Bear Dale (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jc1350
Member
158 posts
Likes: 6
Joined Apr 2006
Location: Maryland
     
May 18, 2012 10:32 |  #750

wuzzittoya wrote in post #13747668 (external link)
I was kind of musing about this recently - a friend announced that she was opening her own photo studio and selling her other pictures as well (she has pretty photos from her vacations). Her boyfriend just upgraded her camera to a Canon Elph 300HS (no, I'm not making that up). On her blog and FB page she pretty much advertises herself for events, portraiture and fine art photography (with a point and shoot!?!?).

If this has already been posted, apologies.

I was watching an episode of TWiT Photo with Jerry Ghionis (wedding photographer for those who don't know) and he mentioned he shot a friend's wedding in part with an iPhone (used his Nikon for everything, then used the phone for second shots). All processing was done on the phone. He entered it in the WPPI wedding album competition (again, just the iphone photos) and it came in 4th place overall in the "single photographer" category.
The details and photos can be seen at http://jerryghionisblo​g.com …aken-with-the-iphone.html (external link)

While the camera helps, it's more about what the photographer sees than the gear used.


--
John

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

130,598 views & 0 likes for this thread
Are Amateurs destroying Photography
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Giku
827 guests, 298 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.