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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 27 May 2012 (Sunday) 19:51
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I think I am done...

 
shayneyasinski
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May 27, 2012 19:51 |  #1

Paid work is hard to get since 14 year olds and people just wanting to learn will do it for nothing.
I always enjoyed shooting and only bought a camera to do this for myself but was asked a few times to do weddings and other events so I invested in some better gear to do them.
my biggest issue are the people who have stepped in my way to take my paid work and do it for nothing only to produce poor pictures for my past clients and for my past clients to want me back but to do it for less.

A few weeks ago I was the best man at my friends wedding, the photog had us at the park and one of the relatives pulls out his $599 kit and starts shooting, I stop him and say that we are here to get our shots covered by the pro and to not confuse us and have us looking at you instead of the pro I ask if you can put your camera away.
after the shoot she thanked me for doing what I did and how so many have freaked on her in that situation.


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JeffreyG
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May 27, 2012 20:25 |  #2

If you cannot make a living doing 'X', then you should change jobs and do something else. Get a degree or learn a craft that cannot easily be undercut. Photography is a fun hobby and the basics are easy enough that most people can become competent with a modicum of study. So the world is full of reasonably talented hobbiests who are more than happy to take on jobs primarily for fun and also for a bit of side money. A lot of these people will be able to churn out passably good work.

Unless you are working in a high end artistic range, you cannot expect to be doing something that is impossible for others to recreate with minimal effort.

I do not understand why photographers feel a need to go on and on here at POTN on this subject. Two kinds of jobs really pay....those that can only be done by a few because they require special talents, and those than are not fun to do and so must be paid or they will never get done. If you are doing a fun job than anyone can do, you are going to have to really excel to make it profitable.


My personal stuff:http://www.flickr.com/​photos/jngirbach/sets/ (external link)
I use a Canon 5DIII and a Sony A7rIII

  
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Bear ­ Dale
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May 27, 2012 20:32 |  #3

shayneyasinski wrote in post #14492996 (external link)
Paid work is hard to get since 14 year olds and people just wanting to learn will do it for nothing.

If you're only producing what a 14 year old or someone who is learning photography is producing and you're a professional ........ something is wrong.

If you produce excellent work thats not easily produced by any GWC and you're competing for customers who would even consider hiring a 14 year old or someone who is learning......I think you're competing for the wrong customers.


Cheers,
Bear Dale

Some of my photos featured on Flickr Bear Dale (external link)

  
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lensfreak
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May 27, 2012 20:32 |  #4

I know how ya feel.

Very hard to compete with. I have lost several jobs in that these amateurs shoot for peanuts.

I know that most of you say that some photogs deal with the wrong clients who don't see the quality over the cheap price. Well, from experience, today a lot semi pro photogs need some work to kick start their portfolio and that means doing smaller jobs. The issue is that amateur photogs are asking for peanuts and therefore these small business clients are compelled to spend less over the so called financial ruin the world is in. I lost a job to a young girl who shot 400 photos for $100.00. I contacted the client and they laughed at me saying that if I could it for $100 I would have got the job.

Give a few more years and medical specialists will cease to exist cause there will be more backyarders consulting google for their answers and offering a cheaper consultation.




  
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Bosscat
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May 27, 2012 20:39 |  #5

People shop on price and don't know the difference between an average and a great photo.

Only reason people on here do is because of the passion for photography.

Its like a true race fan doesn't go to the racetrack to watch crashes, yet the average person is there to see blood spilled, same as hockey.

Stop giving Joe Consumer so much credit for being smart about photography.


Your camera is alot smarter than the "M" Zealots would have you believe

  
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lensfreak
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May 27, 2012 20:43 |  #6

Their not smart

They just cut their throats for the glory and in turn reduce the quality of living for genuine photographers who put in the hard work to produce. It's true everyone wants cheap cheap now and it's not just in photography. I know a guy who tints windows and has been for the past 20 years. He is now losing a business due to backyarders putting in tint 80% cheaper than his price. He can't compete. Yeah he could find the RIGHT clients, but people today don't want to pay a lot anymore. I would be correct in saying that many pros on here have convenient contracts with clients or they know the boss who knows the boss and always get work. BUT, there are many new photogs who seriously want to startup and earn as they should but the backyarders are making it very hard. I say it again, I blame the camera prices for this. If jumbo jets were cheap, can you imagine the saturated airways with jumbos and airlines trying to get customers to fly with them? Why would they bother when crazy joe airlines will fly you to London for$200




  
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TooManyShots
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May 27, 2012 20:47 |  #7
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I see, you are no match for the 14 years old. What in the world is coming to!!!!!


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TooManyShots
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May 27, 2012 20:48 |  #8
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fotoworx wrote in post #14493148 (external link)
If you're only producing what a 14 year old or someone who is learning photography is producing and you're a professional ........ something is wrong.

If you produce excellent work thats not easily produced by any GWC and you're competing for customers who would even consider hiring a 14 year old or someone who is learning......I think you're competing for the wrong customers.


Ding, ding, ding...correct assessment. Yes, the OP should quit if he or she couldn't even compete with a 14 years old...:)


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lensfreak
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May 27, 2012 20:50 |  #9

I think the issue here is consumers now look for price over quality. Yeah sure vogue or Marie Clair look for the established pros to shoot their work, but starting up photogs need the work to get to that level and it's the backyard throat cutters that take the jobs from them.




  
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JeffreyG
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May 27, 2012 20:52 |  #10

Hundreds of years ago, a portrait was something that could only be created by a very skilled painter, and the cost was so high that only the top fragment of society could afford one.

One hundred years ago, photography made a portrait something that a person of ordinary means could afford, but only rarely as a special event as the cost was quite high.

Twenty years ago, portraits were something you might have gotten every few years, and especially for events such as births, weddings etc.

Now, digital makes photography quite easy to learn. People can invest a little effort and take the photos they want for themselves, or they can find a very low cost photographer to do it for them. It's a good thing, where the costs to get high quality photography continue to fall to the point where even lower income people can afford it.

So who doesn't like the fact that photography is becoming cheaper? Try to guess.


My personal stuff:http://www.flickr.com/​photos/jngirbach/sets/ (external link)
I use a Canon 5DIII and a Sony A7rIII

  
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Robinson ­ Crusoe
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May 27, 2012 21:42 |  #11

Thanks to glorious google everyone knows about everything nowadays :) I was a professional web programmer. No matter if i make art in the background, use all the techniques and make a better software, the client is interested in only the output. If it works, why pay more? After 30 now i'm changing my job. Not because i wasn't making enough money for a living, but after spending your years developing your skills on something, realizing that noone respects your job, it's hard to handle, because i could make the same money with less afford, who will bring my years back? I can't blame anyone, i also prefer cheap, and OP or the other supporters of the idea, if you think objectively you'll realize that you also prefer cheap most the times. I was lucky to compete for a job that has a high reputation/wage rate. I hope you'll also find a way out.


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TooManyShots
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May 27, 2012 22:59 |  #12
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lensfreak wrote in post #14493201 (external link)
I think the issue here is consumers now look for price over quality. Yeah sure vogue or Marie Clair look for the established pros to shoot their work, but starting up photogs need the work to get to that level and it's the backyard throat cutters that take the jobs from them.


That's not the issues..... The issue is that you got cheap customers saturating the cheap market. How can a 14 year old compete with a paying pros???? Is this kid shooting with over $10k of L lenses and pro bodies? And couple of grands of lighting equipment? Can a 14 year old kid establish a trusting relationship with a potential client? This thread is so wrong on so many levels....:)


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Bear ­ Dale
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May 27, 2012 23:11 |  #13

JeffreyG wrote in post #14493128 (external link)
Get a degree or learn a craft that cannot easily be undercut.

Jeffrey nailed in.

If you're trying raise a family, pay a mortgage and have a fruitful life in an employed job that gives you financial security ...... it's not going to be in ANY field that a 14 year kid can undercut you.


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Bear Dale

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Bear ­ Dale
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May 27, 2012 23:13 |  #14

TooManyShots wrote in post #14493689 (external link)
Can a 14 year old kid establish a trusting relationship with a potential client?

Only if you sign there contract using a crayon :D


Cheers,
Bear Dale

Some of my photos featured on Flickr Bear Dale (external link)

  
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x_tan
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May 28, 2012 00:38 |  #15

JeffreyG wrote in post #14493128 (external link)
If you cannot make a living doing 'X', then you should change jobs and do something else. Get a degree or learn a craft that cannot easily be undercut. Photography is a fun hobby and the basics are easy enough that most people can become competent with a modicum of study. So the world is full of reasonably talented hobbiests who are more than happy to take on jobs primarily for fun and also for a bit of side money. A lot of these people will be able to churn out passably good work.

Unless you are working in a high end artistic range, you cannot expect to be doing something that is impossible for others to recreate with minimal effort.

I do not understand why photographers feel a need to go on and on here at POTN on this subject. Two kinds of jobs really pay....those that can only be done by a few because they require special talents, and those than are not fun to do and so must be paid or they will never get done. If you are doing a fun job than anyone can do, you are going to have to really excel to make it profitable.

JeffreyG wrote in post #14493204 (external link)
Hundreds of years ago, a portrait was something that could only be created by a very skilled painter, and the cost was so high that only the top fragment of society could afford one.

One hundred years ago, photography made a portrait something that a person of ordinary means could afford, but only rarely as a special event as the cost was quite high.

Twenty years ago, portraits were something you might have gotten every few years, and especially for events such as births, weddings etc.

Now, digital makes photography quite easy to learn. People can invest a little effort and take the photos they want for themselves, or they can find a very low cost photographer to do it for them. It's a good thing, where the costs to get high quality photography continue to fall to the point where even lower income people can afford it.

So who doesn't like the fact that photography is becoming cheaper? Try to guess.

Totally agree.


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I think I am done...
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