Inside jobs........what to do

Need advice,


Just lost a job today. Was told by a little birdie that I could have put in a quote for $1 for 50,000 processed images and still not get it.

Here is how it was. I enquired for a job recently and was told yes please, can you submit a quote and we will put it to our client. Turns out there is this events organiser who takes the job of hiring staff, food and contractors for your event. I was told today they have already got inside deals setup to always give the job to their inside photographer and other contractors. The sad thing is that there are many photogs like me who put in tenders and never get the job. Well suspicions are that its an inside job. Is this legal?

I was in the understanding that the event organiser would have to pass on the quotes to the client? Would this be classified as insider trading?


I am most upset as I never ever get the jobs with these people and they always have the same contractors.


I was going to confront them but friend advised to just accept the loss and move on. I dont mind competing for a job but when the decision is made well in advance I see that it wastes everyone else's time even submitting a quote when they wont win anyway.

...put your big boys shoes on and suck it up.

I worked in the conference and events industry for over thirteen years and I picked contractors based on reliability, customer service, and ability to work with me. If you are an unknown quantity you will find it harder to get work.

Trust me: you learn quite quickly when you are sitting with your client and the client is literally shaking and in tears because their event has gone to crap because you took a chance on a new contractor that its best to work with people you know and trust. Is that fair? Yep. If you want to get your foot in the door in the conference/events industry you have to do the hard yards and prove yourself.

As to the legality...where do you live? In most places I know of course this is legal: and I doubt there is anywhere where it wouldn't be. I'm based in New Zealand and the job of an Event Organizer is to...organize and event. As to how much involvement their client gets into the day-to-day planning of an event it varies from company to company: but selecting a photographer is pretty low down on the totem pole and I doubt they would want to get involved past a signature on a line item.

Experience isn't the issue here. I have that. The situation is like you applying for a job and it turns out the employer only puts the ad in the newspaper to show that they are doing the right thing but in the end he always hires his friends or relatives, even though your resume` shows your work and skill is well above the requirements.


Denis

lensfreak wrote in post #14515294
Experience isn't the issue here. I have that. The situation is like you applying for a job and it turns out the employer only puts the ad in the newspaper to show that they are doing the right thing but in the end he always hires his friends or relatives, even though your resume` shows your work and skill is well above the requirements.


Denis

...but that isn't the case here. The case here is:

This is what Event Organizers do. I've been out of the industry for a couple of years now and I still have my business card file of trusted contacts and when I occasionally get asked for advice they are always the ones I recommend. Why would someone recommend you? Why were you more suitable for this event than the photographer who did land the gig?

Did you respond to an advert? Do you know what process your application went through? Why don't you show us your proposal for a critique? There are hundreds of reasons why you were unsuccessful and I doubt it was anything more than there really was no compelling reason to not use their normal photographer and to take a gamble on someone they have never used before.

You weren't applying for a job. You were applying to be a cog in a massive machine and you had to prove that you could fit in. You were obviously unsuccessful.

lensfreak wrote in post #14515249
I was going to confront them but friend advised to just accept the loss and move on..

Your friend is a wise person.

lensfreak wrote in post #14515249
I was going to confront them but friend advised to just accept the loss and move on. I dont mind competing for a job but when the decision is made well in advance I see that it wastes everyone else's time even submitting a quote when they wont win anyway.

Then you now know not to submit a quote in the future. Confronting them just makes sure you never get a job from them.

yes,


I wont bother with them again.

Cheers, guys


thanks for the replies

and yes, I have sucked it up and moved on

"I wont bother with them again."

You might want to, unless I'm misunderstanding your post.

It sounds to me that the person you dealt with forwarded your proposal to the event coordinator, who already has a relationship with a photographer they're satisfied with. That's the kind of client you want - someone with repeat business who's going to stay loyal to you as long as you perform. If you can somehow get to deal with this person directly and impress them with the fact that you're someone who'd be a good fit with them, you may have a shot if for some reason down the road the other photography doesn't/can't deliver. I have a couple of customers I've gotten this way, sometimes after a couple of years of just staying in touch, but once you have a client like that they're yours until you give them good reason to leave.

And you weren't really expecting to get the job because you submitted the lowest quote, were you?

This is life. It happens all the time in all sorts of industries. You can cry in your drink about it or become proactive and learn from the experiences. You may never get a job from this contractor as long as they have a relationship with another photographer that they are happy with. I would approach them and thank them for allowing you to put in a bid and ask them what you could do to improve your pitch. Try to work with them and not against them.

When I worked in a large multinational company this happened all the time. We had to post our job openings but I knew before hand who I was going to hire. Computer system changes were decided but we still put out a RFP so that other companies wouldn't feel left out and we could retain a relationship with them. It stinks, but it is life. Move on and learn from it.

Try to get a job working for one of the most successful photography companies in your area which has the lock on the events you want to shoot.

Once there, over time, have conversations with the people who do the hiring. Get to know her or him.

It will take a few years.

After that, maybe, just maybe, you'll be able to go independent.

Warning, photography is not my business. But I'm pretty sure relationships rule the day. If they do not know and trust you, then you are pretty much wasting your time bidding.

That said, if you keep bidding then do it all the time and every time you can. Eventually, you may get a tap because the organizer turned over, or the organizer needs to throw a contractor under a bus.

Wait...so the B&G don't get to choose their own photographer? Who would ever bother to get married there?

Even here is backwater Allentown we have all-inclusive venues. They quote one-stop turnkey weddings for a fixed cost per plate all in.

Kids like it because then they know what the budget is.

gigs don't go to the highest / lowest bidder. They go to the person that the hiring party wants to work with. Sometimes budget is the determining factor, other times it's not.

I have a few steady clients who will use me above and beyond any other party due to the relationship I have built with them. If someone asks, then they are open to bids / proposals. But those bids / proposals rarely actually get looked at or considered.

The more lucrative areas of photography usually don't include B&Gs. I have a couple dozen steady clients I rarely have to bid on jobs but when I do its either a tire kicker/someone that needs 3 bids and are probably not going top use me but just need some quotes or a client that is going to use me but is required for the project to get at least 3 bids. Like Jacob said it has little to do with price most of the time. Many times the job has already been budgeted for and if the client doesn't use the money budgeted they loose it so its not like dealing with the general public where price is sometimes the motivating factor. To many art directors, account managers and other such professionals its about trust and the ability to work well together and there is usually to much on the line to try an unknown entity. I have gotten all my clients through either actual working with them (I was a staff photographer for years in the same industry I now work in) or recommendations. Its a slow way to build business but a very reliable way. As most here on POTN know I don't have a website. Its not how I would get business. But what the OP described is just the way business is done. Many visual professionals fully understand how deceptive a web site or a portfolio can be. Most work with people they can trust and pick a photographer for the way his work looks and how it matches the vision of the art director/graphic designer.

what you describe is standard operating procedure. in business often times owners will put to bid their services even though they have no intent on changing their providers. there are a couple of reasons for this. As previously mentioned they want to maintain certain outside relationships and give "opportunities", and also they want to see how their pricing/fee structure stacks up periodically with their "inside" guy. really nothing you can do about it except move on.