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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 11 Jun 2012 (Monday) 00:39
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Pikes Peak...owns your photos!

 
Eric ­ T
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Jun 11, 2012 00:39 |  #1

If you haven't read about this, you need to.

http://mylifeatspeed.c​om/archives/13635 (external link)


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FlyingPhotog
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Jun 11, 2012 00:44 |  #2

Not that unusual...

At the big Oshkosh fly in each summer, if you're "Media", you can't sell anything for commercial use and even "fine art" is frowned upon. Editorial or nothing is essentially the rule put forth as a condition of credential acceptance by the EAA.

The $40 fee for being Media at Pike's Peak is a little unfair though...


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JacobPhoto
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Jun 11, 2012 01:05 |  #3

nope, not unusual at all. Editorial use is separate from commercial use. Nearly every motorsports sanctioning body that is worth anything has a similar rights agreement.

Ironically, I was just having a discussion the other day with a fellow motorsport photographer about how Pikes Peak is probably one of the worst races to sponsor a team in because of the low return on investment. There's very little media coverage, very few spectators, and unless you're one of the 3 or 4 top guys looking to break the 10 minute mark (which Monster Tajima did last year), most drivers are barely more than a name on the results list that a few hundred people actually check.


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Jun 11, 2012 03:06 as a reply to  @ JacobPhoto's post |  #4

The guy starts by saying he isn't doing it for the money.... then goes on to just talk about the money. Kinda invalidates his whole argument. Also, the organisers spend a lot setting up the race and if they want to get something back that is up to them.

Sure, it would be great if every tog could go to any event with zero restrictions and make big bucks selling their photos without anyone else wanting a %. But back in the real world.....

It is a simple law of business that markets are more open to start with and then competition and restrictions increase. Organisers need coverage at the start and are willing to allow anyone access, but as an event grows and develops the organisers start looking to make some of their (often hefty) investment back.


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casp3r
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Jun 11, 2012 05:14 |  #5

So they want you to pay them $40 for media access and for this you get the privilege of handing over the copyright ('Rights') of all the photos you take, and have to pay them for every photo you want to sell?????


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Eric ­ T
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Jun 11, 2012 08:56 |  #6

Dan Marchant wrote in post #14561552 (external link)
The guy starts by saying he isn't doing it for the money.... then goes on to just talk about the money. Kinda invalidates his whole argument.

Going to have to disagree with this. He mentions he is going in debt (hotel, airline, gear, etc) on the chance that he might sell a photo or two to different companies or magazines. He then goes into showcasing the different places that are losing out by this photog not covering the event.


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Picture ­ North ­ Carolina
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Jun 11, 2012 10:05 |  #7

I think the author has a point.

When facility owners, event promoters, etc., adopt an attitude of a tightly-clenched fist, they are harming themselves.

They may be controlling media, yes, but at the same time, inherently that means they are controlling exposure.

Restricted exposure is the antithesis of successful promotion.


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elrey2375
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Jun 11, 2012 11:22 |  #8

Shot the Women's NCAA tournament this year and the NCAA owns the photos. I have editorial use only rights to them. It's common practice.


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TooManyShots
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Jun 11, 2012 11:32 |  #9
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elrey2375 wrote in post #14563017 (external link)
Shot the Women's NCAA tournament this year and the NCAA owns the photos. I have editorial use only rights to them. It's common practice.


Common practice for more well respected events with press coverage? I don't see why would any photog would pay to cover an event if he or she isn't shooting for the press and getting paid by their agencies.


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JacobPhoto
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Jun 11, 2012 11:57 |  #10

Someone should look up the photo policy for the TED conference. Media members must pay $800, and TED owns all rights to images outside of editorial. Oh, that $800 fee is a discount from the $7,500 fee that attendees pay. Also, no video without expressed written consent, severe fines for usage outside of what was agreed upon (much more than the $250 slap on the hand!), etc....

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elrey2375
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Jun 11, 2012 13:07 |  #11

TooManyShots wrote in post #14563072 (external link)
Common practice for more well respected events with press coverage? I don't see why would any photog would pay to cover an event if he or she isn't shooting for the press and getting paid by their agencies.

I know it's common practice for NCAA tournament sports. Also, you have to be sponsored by an agency or media business to get a credential, so ostensibly you are there for them. You wouldn't be able to gain entry with a credential in any other way really. Can you put the photos on FB or on your portfolio? Sure, but you can't sell them. I'm fine with it and I've even framed prints for myself and have them hanging up in my house. That's enough for me. Basically, what it says is that if you take a photo that the NCAA wants to use for promotional purposes, etc., you have to give it to them for use, no compensation.


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ssim
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Jun 12, 2012 00:17 |  #12

Eric T wrote in post #14562252 (external link)
Going to have to disagree with this. He mentions he is going in debt (hotel, airline, gear, etc) on the chance that he might sell a photo or two to different companies or magazines. He then goes into showcasing the different places that are losing out by this photog not covering the event.

This is business, you have to spend money to have the chance at making some. Businesses know that photographers (irrespective of their quality) are a dime a dozen these days. There is no shortage of people willing to sign on the dotted line even if the term and conditions are horrible. We as an industry have ourselves to blame for this.


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Steve ­ of ­ Cornubia
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Jun 12, 2012 00:22 as a reply to  @ ssim's post |  #13

I don't shoot pro sports (any more). Get yourself off to some club-level racing, where organisers are often much more accommodating. Even then, you won't make money, but at least you feel welcome!


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FlyingPhotog
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Jun 12, 2012 05:25 |  #14

TooManyShots wrote in post #14563072 (external link)
Common practice for more well respected events with press coverage? I don't see why would any photog would pay to cover an event if he or she isn't shooting for the press and getting paid by their agencies.

How about the $1.2Billion (with a "B") that the television networks pay TO the NFL for the right to broadcast NFL games?

The other stick and ball sports have similar broadcast rights agreements.

IIRC, NBC paid $XX.X Billion for the domestic broadcast rights to the Olympics for the next three Summer and Winter games...


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Narwhal
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Jun 12, 2012 05:43 |  #15

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #14567110 (external link)
IIRC, NBC paid $XX.X Billion for the domestic broadcast rights to the Olympics for the next three Summer and Winter games...

And that is just for the US.

Here in Brazil the coverage is excellent from the spectator standpoint. Here, we will have at least 4 different channels which allows us to see live coverage of different sports. The US could learn a lot from this.


JIM

  
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