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Thread started 12 Jun 2012 (Tuesday) 21:46
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PLEASE bring back eye-control AF!

 
Old ­ Baldy
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Jun 13, 2012 21:49 as a reply to  @ post 14574340 |  #31

I loved it on my old Elan IIe. Works brilliantly. I also don;t understand why they discontinued the function. It's SO much faster, easier and better than manual dial/joystick selection, IMO.


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kfreels
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Jun 13, 2012 22:47 |  #32

rrblint wrote in post #14576016 (external link)
Hogloff's statement to the effect that all is not being revealed about EC in this thread got me to thinking...Is there anything I would complain about with respect to EC?

While everything I have said in my earlier posts is true from my experience, the only complaint I can think of is: When shooting at a small aperture, say f11, if you inadvertently look up at the DOF square(on the A2E)the lens will stop down and the viewfinder will go dark...While this is disconcerting, it certainly is a minor inconvenience compared to the benefits as described in previous posts...OK Canon lose the EC DOF preview, I can reach the DOF button easily.That is honestly my only complaint.

From the responses so far it looks like I'm not by myself.

I know EC isn't for everyone(I don't think anything I have said implies otherwise)and you shouldn't have to buy it if you don't want it.

I just want the chance to use it on a DSLR and I think many others would enjoy it's benefits if they were given that chance.

I think a lot of the issue really was that you couldn't call upon it "as needed". You either had it on or off. I would imagine that now you could have a few flavors. You could have it always work, or just when you push a specific button just as you do now. You push the focus selection button and move the dial/scroll wheel now. Instead you would push the button and look at the box you want and push the button again to confirm (or just let it time-out). Whatever the case, with the capabilities now, there could be all sorts of ways to utilize it.

One thing I can't figure out is how someone can say "Fun to play with...but not if you are serious about photography." It worked for a lot of us. It's a much more efficient way to operate IF it is calibrated properly. It's not even an auto function. It's just using a different faster part of your body to make a change to a setting. To me, anything that makes you more efficient is serious. My studio was indeed a serious operation at the time and it never failed to work for me.


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rrblint
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Jun 13, 2012 23:21 |  #33

kfreels wrote in post #14576265 (external link)
I think a lot of the issue really was that you couldn't call upon it "as needed". You either had it on or off. I would imagine that now you could have a few flavors. You could have it always work, or just when you push a specific button just as you do now. You push the focus selection button and move the dial/scroll wheel now. Instead you would push the button and look at the box you want and push the button again to confirm (or just let it time-out). Whatever the case, with the capabilities now, there could be all sorts of ways to utilize it.

One thing I can't figure out is how someone can say "Fun to play with...but not if you are serious about photography." It worked for a lot of us. It's a much more efficient way to operate IF it is calibrated properly. It's not even an auto function. It's just using a different faster part of your body to make a change to a setting. To me, anything that makes you more efficient is serious. My studio was indeed a serious operation at the time and it never failed to work for me.

+1

Well said kfreels!

I hope you don't think I've hijacked your thread but I'm passionate about this subject.

EC is no "interesting toy", I have found it to be a VERY useful professional tool.

My DSLR is the first AF SLR I've ever owned without EC and I hate having to choose FPs by feel instead of sight...I didn't realize how much I was going to miss that feature.

I think many people tried it without proper calibration, some it just was genuinely incompatible with their eyes, but most simply dismissed it as some sort of auto-selection mode without trying it.

I love your idea for an "EC in use" style of activation and there are many possibilities for add-ons and improvements:

To the best of my recollection you could choose the beginning FP for Servo AF but had to continue to track the subject using that single AF point...A possible improvement could be to have continuous EC follow focus by looking at different AF points.

The possibilities are endless...


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Fai ­ Ng
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Jun 14, 2012 00:20 |  #34

I like this function very much. It works very well even I wear sunglasses. (elan7e)

It's my dream for EC coming back.




  
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SmokeySiFy
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Jun 14, 2012 01:16 |  #35

So I have to ask, does touch screen focusing have anything on EC focus?


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Snydremark
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Jun 14, 2012 01:29 |  #36

So...how did it work? How does the camera tell where you're looking in the frame?


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rrblint
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Jun 14, 2012 01:40 |  #37

Snydremark wrote in post #14576765 (external link)
So...how did it work? How does the camera tell where you're looking in the frame?

It's complicated and I don't know the particulars but the camera directs an IR beam into the eye at the viewfinder which, once properly calibrated to the user's eye, will reflect to a receiver in the viewfinder. This receiver can then discern which FP the user's eye is pointed to and instructs the camera accordingly.

It's absolutely amazing that someone could conceive such a system, let alone that it works so well for most users.


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sambarino
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Jun 14, 2012 02:32 |  #38

I have this feature on my Elan 7NE and use it frequently. I can't believe that Canon couldn't make an even better version available today. At the very least it is a neat trick. At best it can be extremely helpful. If you don't use it, lump it into the category of stuff your camera can do that you aren't interested in. The only camera I have that I use ALL of the features of is a completely manual Yashica FX-3 Super 2000. ECF would be a great addition to the next generation of Canon DSLRs.




  
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Gregg.Siam
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Jun 14, 2012 02:46 as a reply to  @ sambarino's post |  #39

I don't think it will work with modern AF systems. Most of the time I want the AF exactly where I put it. For example, I want it directly on the pupil; not on the eyebrow. I don't think with a 41 point AF system like the 5D3 has you could get the precision we are used to. Now if it were a 9 point AF like the Rebel series, I could see it working just fine.

I think with AI Servo it would be even more of a pain or completely worthless. I love the AI Servo mode on my 5D3 as it just never misses. I don't think I could give it up for an eye control based AF.


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NicuB
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Jun 14, 2012 04:39 |  #40

Gregg.Siam wrote in post #14576945 (external link)
I don't think it will work with modern AF systems. Most of the time I want the AF exactly where I put it. For example, I want it directly on the pupil; not on the eyebrow. I don't think with a 41 point AF system like the 5D3 has you could get the precision we are used to. Now if it were a 9 point AF like the Rebel series, I could see it working just fine.

I think with AI Servo it would be even more of a pain or completely worthless. I love the AI Servo mode on my 5D3 as it just never misses. I don't think I could give it up for an eye control based AF.

My opinion on this is based only on my experience with my EOS3 ( great camera btw ). It is that simple to turn it off if you do not like it ( you can then carefully choose pupil and not glasses for example ). And it works pretty fine with the 45 points of focus from EOS3. The only problem that I had was calibrating it. It took me a couple of tries, and you need to remember which eye are you using. I never used it for AI servo so I do not know if it works OK.

But take into consideration that that camera was ( and for some of us still is ) a gem. up to f/8 useable auto focus ( I think 5D3 does not have that , but I might be wrong ), very well positioned focus point and very intuitive modes of selecting the focus, pretty fast FPS ( not that I need that ).

I miss some of the features on my digital one.

The only problem that I see with implementing that is the cost.

Cheers,
Nic




  
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John ­ from ­ PA
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Jun 14, 2012 05:59 |  #41

The Elan IIe was the second camera with the technology, the first being the EOS 5. For those that had the Elan IIe, you will remember two significant improvements over the EOS 5. One, you could now shoot vertically and the system still tracked the eye, and two if you were shooting a moving subject, as long as you kept your eye on the subject in the viewfinder, it remained in focus. The Elan IIe also had a faster system, supposedly twice as fast as the EOS 5.




  
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Hogloff
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Jun 14, 2012 06:48 |  #42
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kfreels wrote in post #14576265 (external link)
I think a lot of the issue really was that you couldn't call upon it "as needed". You either had it on or off. I would imagine that now you could have a few flavors. You could have it always work, or just when you push a specific button just as you do now. You push the focus selection button and move the dial/scroll wheel now. Instead you would push the button and look at the box you want and push the button again to confirm (or just let it time-out). Whatever the case, with the capabilities now, there could be all sorts of ways to utilize it.

One thing I can't figure out is how someone can say "Fun to play with...but not if you are serious about photography." It worked for a lot of us. It's a much more efficient way to operate IF it is calibrated properly. It's not even an auto function. It's just using a different faster part of your body to make a change to a setting. To me, anything that makes you more efficient is serious. My studio was indeed a serious operation at the time and it never failed to work for me.

I guess that is the difference. It never failed for YOU...but for ME it was very inconsistent, sometimes working other times frustratingly not allowing me to focus on what I wanted. Yes, I calibrated many times without ever getting consistent results. This is why I said if I was seriously shooting, I could not rely on the eye controlled focus, so I just did not use it.

There were many people with the same issues as I had. If it was such a success, I think we would have seen it in all cameras as it is a differentiating technology that really tugs at the "geek" strings which would atract gear head photographers to Canon.




  
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stumbows
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Jun 14, 2012 07:16 |  #43

I'd happily pay $200 extra for the feature and sacrifice 100 shots in battery life. I hope Canon can bring this back.




  
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John ­ from ­ PA
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Jun 14, 2012 07:33 |  #44

Read the 2nd question with response by Chuck Westfall of Canon here: http://digitaljournali​st.org/issue0912/tech-tips.html (external link)

There was another feature within ECF and without getting out my manual or Elan I may be sketcy on the details. There was a way that when you looked through the viewfinder and "eye" selected a focus point on the furthest point, then the nearest point, and then looked in the upper left corner, the camera detected a range of focus. The camera would then automatically set the aperture for the needed depth of field as defined by the two points (near and far), assuming the lens could deliver the aperture computed. There was some special way to do this; not sure but it may have been as simple as selecting aperture mode.




  
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Larry ­ Weinman
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Jun 14, 2012 07:38 |  #45

A canon rep told me that it didn't work very well with eyeglass wearers. Not sure if he made that up or not.


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PLEASE bring back eye-control AF!
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