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Thread started 23 Jun 2012 (Saturday) 07:59
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Disturbing trend in high schools

 
JDPhotoGuy
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Jul 01, 2012 10:27 |  #76

airfrogusmc wrote in post #14655970 (external link)
If you take anything thats not yours its stealing. That means using a photograph that you do not have permission to use is stealing. Its that simple.

That works for tangible items quite nicely. Putting media on the internet is a means of distribution. From your computer to mine through a common server. It's not a one off delivery... The file doesn't disappear off your hard drive and appear on the host's server for everyone to view behind glass. When you upload anything it's automatically a copy which is then copied and stored by every browser that views it.

Within moments of an image hitting this forum there are thousands of copies on people's hard drives across the world.


Yes, I have severe Equipment Deficiency. No, the pills don't fix it.

  
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airfrogusmc
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Jul 01, 2012 10:36 |  #77

JDPhotoGuy wrote in post #14656193 (external link)
That works for tangible items quite nicely. Putting media on the internet is a means of distribution. From your computer to mine through a common server. It's not a one off delivery... The file doesn't disappear off your hard drive and appear on the host's server for everyone to view behind glass. When you upload anything it's automatically a copy which is then copied and stored by every browser that views it.

Within moments of an image hitting this forum there are thousands of copies on people's hard drives across the world.

It works with everything. If its not yours, and you take it, its stealing and to those that try and paint it differently are just not being truthful with themselves. Just because there is a record on your computer doesn't mean you should do whatever you want with it. Again if you take something thats not yours, its stealing, no matter how you paint it. If a car is red you can call it green all day long but the fact remains its still red.




  
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mtimber
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Jul 01, 2012 10:43 |  #78

Someone giving you permission to look at their car parked on the street does not mean they have the permission to get in it and drive it off...


"Can't list equipment, wife checks here to see what I have bought lately" (calicokat)

  
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JDPhotoGuy
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Jul 01, 2012 10:56 |  #79

airfrogusmc wrote in post #14656180 (external link)
If you leave your wallet on a table and someone picks it up and takes it for themselves its stealing. You can call it what you want, its stealing. If you leave your car unlocked with the keys in it if someone takes it its stealing. If you take an image without my permission its stealing. You can twist it, clean it up, do what ever you want with the words, if you take something thats not yours, its stealing.

If I connect to your hard drive without your permission and copy your files, then yes. You folks don't realize that there's no "taking"... You gave me and the rest of the planet with internet access A COPY the moment you put it online. It's a tired argument that's so irrelevant it's not funny to say it's the same as stealing wallets.

In fact, the argument can be made that property doesn't exist at all in a virtual environment. Just flawed interpretations of code.


Yes, I have severe Equipment Deficiency. No, the pills don't fix it.

  
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airfrogusmc
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Jul 01, 2012 11:07 |  #80

I guess then it goes down to teaching your children right and wrong so by the time they get to high school that they understand taking something that is not yours is stealing where ever that is. In many cases you take a pros image without paying you are stealing money just as if you took the wallet. And I know many that have the means to make someones life a living financial hell if they steal and if indeed it hurts the pro financially.




  
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JDPhotoGuy
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Jul 01, 2012 11:21 |  #81

airfrogusmc wrote in post #14656214 (external link)
It works with everything. If its not yours, and you take it, its stealing and to those that try and paint it differently are just not being truthful with themselves. Just because there is a record on your computer doesn't mean you should do whatever you want with it. Again if you take something thats not yours, its stealing, no matter how you paint it. If a car is red you can call it green all day long but the fact remains its still red.

How is it theft when it was given freely to begin with? You can't give someone something then demand to come into their homes to make sure they're using it like you want them to.

Again, I'm just pointing out the ignorance when dealing with this on a retail level. I like the last picture you uploaded to the site and I want to use it in my home, guess what? You put it on my computer by putting it online to begin with then advertising it by posting it on a public forum. That copy, whatever size you uploaded, is done.. mass distributed... gone. You can't check everyone's home with internet access to make sure your rights aren't infringed. That's absurd.

The laws need to be rewritten to only prosecute instances where digital media was used to profit off of. As far as personal use goes, everyone's heard the term Caveat Emptor - let the buyer beware... In other words you should have had more sense and you're screwed. The same needs to hold true for people putting unwatermarked decent resolution images online. If it's used to advertise or promote a business, event, or product without paying for the usage rights, then by all means that should be a non issue whether it's registered federally or not. All you should need is a copy of the full resolution image and 5 minutes in front of a judge where you're automatically awarded a judgment of 20x an industry average amount for that type of usage, paid instantly out of a fund, and recouped through taxes.


Yes, I have severe Equipment Deficiency. No, the pills don't fix it.

  
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airfrogusmc
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Jul 01, 2012 11:51 |  #82

Theft is theft no matter how its packaged and a thief can easily remove a watermark.




  
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SuzyView
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Jul 01, 2012 11:55 |  #83

Sorry, guys. I have a teenager, but I don't let him get things free on the net. If he does, I make him buy it, or delete it. We do have shared content with close friends for video and music access, but we don't own them, and don't pretend to, but we don't make any money off it. There are so many ways to share with family and friends for free today, that it is hard to distinguish what is illegal. The kids know this and push the limits. When the FBI starts really arresting and fining people, we'll see the traffic slowing, but for right now, it's so hard to get caught.


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Viva-photography
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Jul 01, 2012 12:39 |  #84

Long story short:
Want to protect an image/file/song/whatev​er? DONT PUT IT ONLINE.
When you put something online you give anyone in the world a digital copy of the image.

People understand copy right laws. They just don't care. Because the internet is a jungle.
It's sort of the whole
"If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen" thing, whether we like it or not.
You can either adapt, or you WILL die out.

While I'll never advocate or recommend stealing something online because it goes against my moral
grain, you have to understand that it happens and you have to change your game to work WITH it.


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cameraperson
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Jul 01, 2012 15:35 |  #85

What a bizarre thread. So many thieves.


Xsi, 18-55

  
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Bosscat
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Jul 01, 2012 16:06 |  #86

SuzyView wrote in post #14656464 (external link)
When the FBI starts really arresting and fining people, we'll see the traffic slowing, but for right now, it's so hard to get caught.

If America put as much effort into this as it does to fighting everyone else's wars, then maybe the economy would not be in the tank, since think how many billions of dollars are lost to copyright theft.


Your camera is alot smarter than the "M" Zealots would have you believe

  
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FlyingPhotog
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Jul 01, 2012 16:14 |  #87

JDPhotoGuy wrote in post #14656278 (external link)
If I connect to your hard drive without your permission and copy your files, then yes. You folks don't realize that there's no "taking"... You gave me and the rest of the planet with internet access A COPY the moment you put it online. It's a tired argument that's so irrelevant it's not funny to say it's the same as stealing wallets.

In fact, the argument can be made that property doesn't exist at all in a virtual environment. Just flawed interpretations of code.

Just flat out wrong...

DMCA: http://en.wikipedia.or​g …_Millennium_Cop​yright_Act (external link)

Get Educated...


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Levina ­ de ­ Ruijter
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Jul 01, 2012 18:31 |  #88

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #14657311 (external link)
Just flat out wrong...

DMCA: http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Digital..._Copy​right_Act (external link)

Yes, it is wrong. Of course it is. The problem is that you can wave the Law like that, but that it is very difficult to actually implement it. The Pirate Bay servers are shut down and within days the site is back in business somewhere else and beyond national borders. Movie DVD's are copy-protected but the code is cracked within hours and spreads on the internet like anthrax. How is one to deal with that? The powers that be in the movie and music industry desperately try to cling on to the old ways, and the internet community laughs. It really is like Jared says: you adapt or you will die. You may not like it. I may not like it, but it is simply the reality of things and waving the Law won't change that.

Now I would sooner kill myself than claim the work of somebody else to be my own, but I am also very realistic and know that for a great many people the internet has made the line between mine and thine rather fluid, even when it comes to works of art. Protect your work as best you can, people will find ways around it and the only way to be sure is to not put your work online, ever. However, if you do, then know that you are not doing so on *your* terms. Better accept that and get over it, is all I'm saying.


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airfrogusmc
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Jul 01, 2012 19:33 |  #89

Heres the deal as I see it. We are all photographers that post here. The best thing we can do is if we see someone a friend one of our kids or grandkids stealing is to educate them as to why that hurts ALL of us. Laws are not effective if people don't follow them. Drinking and driving was once acceptable but it has slowly become not expectable behavior. The law is only part of it but a responsibility to each other makes it less acceptable. As Suzy mentioned we need to all let those we see doing it that its not cool to steal copy righted material. All we can do is take care of what we do and what we see on a personal level and if we all do whats right it will surely help.

Saying its just part of the deal and the way things are is no better than Blagojevich using the excuse of everyone else is doing it. Its just the way things are done in politics. So if we all take responsibility of what we can control and let people know that when the steal its not cool maybe we can start to have an effect. It wont stop until it becomes uncool to steal.




  
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mobei
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Jul 01, 2012 20:50 |  #90

airfrogusmc wrote in post #14657969 (external link)
Heres the deal as I see it. We are all photographers that post here. The best thing we can do is if we see someone a friend one of our kids or grandkids stealing is to educate them as to why that hurts ALL of us. Laws are not effective if people don't follow them. Drinking and driving was once acceptable but it has slowly become not expectable behavior. The law is only part of it but a responsibility to each other makes it less acceptable. As Suzy mentioned we need to all let those we see doing it that its not cool to steal copy righted material. All we can do is take care of what we do and what we see on a personal level and if we all do whats right it will surely help.

Saying its just part of the deal and the way things are is no better than Blagojevich using the excuse of everyone else is doing it. Its just the way things are done in politics. So if we all take responsibility of what we can control and let people know that when the steal its not cool maybe we can start to have an effect. It wont stop until it becomes uncool to steal.

Well said. Kinda makes you wonder where we would be if we had just accepted British rule centuries ago. All these people with no ethics and morals is pretty scary. Makes me want to head for the hills. What happens when a populace accepts that cheating is widely acceptable ? So everyone is doing it? Can anyone survive in the chaos? do we start meting out justice upon our transgressors ourselves?




  
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