Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 22 Jan 2012 (Sunday) 09:10
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Are Amateurs destroying Photography

 
tonylong
...winded
Avatar
54,657 posts
Gallery: 60 photos
Likes: 544
Joined Sep 2007
Location: Vancouver, WA USA
     
Jun 27, 2012 04:27 |  #946

And you know, Ricardo, that the positive thought are sent and received!


Tony
Two Canon cameras (5DC, 30D), three Canon lenses (24-105, 100-400, 100mm macro)
Tony Long Photos on PBase (external link)
Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
x_tan
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
8,147 posts
Gallery: 137 photos
Best ofs: 3
Likes: 462
Joined Sep 2010
Location: ɐılɐɹʇsnɐ 'ǝuɹnoqlǝɯ
     
Jul 12, 2012 03:15 |  #947

tonylong wrote in post #14630207 (external link)
I admit it, I "robbed" a pro of a job last week!
...
QUOTED IMAGE

QUOTED IMAGE

There are sexy :lol::lol::lol:


Canon 5D3 + Zoom (EF 17-40L, 24-105L & 28-300L, 100-400L II) & Prime (24L II, 85L II, 100L, 135L & 200 f/2.8L II; Zeiss 1,4/35)
Sony α7r + Zeiss 1,8/55 FE
Nikon Coolpix A; Nikon F3 & F100 + Zeiss 1,4/50
Retiring  (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tonylong
...winded
Avatar
54,657 posts
Gallery: 60 photos
Likes: 544
Joined Sep 2007
Location: Vancouver, WA USA
     
Jul 12, 2012 03:59 |  #948

x_tan wrote in post #14705403 (external link)
There are sexy :lol::lol::lol:

I won't comment on that! I've been working with a group of young people who do drumming and dancing -- if I were to try to engage in "flaunting it" with them. well:

IMAGE: http://www.pbase.com/tonylong/image/144541000/original.jpg

Tony
Two Canon cameras (5DC, 30D), three Canon lenses (24-105, 100-400, 100mm macro)
Tony Long Photos on PBase (external link)
Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Ryski
Member
Avatar
62 posts
Joined Apr 2009
     
Jul 12, 2012 04:12 as a reply to  @ tonylong's post |  #949

Yep, I think they are. I suppose it is just the way the industry is moving though with the advancements in technology. It's still annoying when you quote a fair and reasonable price for a job and the client comes back and says they've found someone to do it for half the price.. People don't value good photography for what it is. It has been cheapened by emerging photographers desperate to get any work that they'll work for peanuts..


Canon 5Dmk2
http://www.hellomiss.c​om.au/ (external link)
http://www.ryanpike.co​m (external link)
http://ryanpike.tumblr​.com/ (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
x_tan
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
8,147 posts
Gallery: 137 photos
Best ofs: 3
Likes: 462
Joined Sep 2010
Location: ɐılɐɹʇsnɐ 'ǝuɹnoqlǝɯ
     
Jul 12, 2012 06:04 |  #950

tonylong wrote in post #14705490 (external link)
I won't comment on that! I've been working with a group of young people who do drumming and dancing -- if I were to try to engage in "flaunting it" with them. well:

QUOTED IMAGE

I get over the stage for fresh already :lol::lol::lol:

Overexpose Skin Destroying Photography


Canon 5D3 + Zoom (EF 17-40L, 24-105L & 28-300L, 100-400L II) & Prime (24L II, 85L II, 100L, 135L & 200 f/2.8L II; Zeiss 1,4/35)
Sony α7r + Zeiss 1,8/55 FE
Nikon Coolpix A; Nikon F3 & F100 + Zeiss 1,4/50
Retiring  (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Karatekachick
Hatchling
6 posts
Joined Jul 2012
     
Jul 13, 2012 00:31 |  #951

As an extreme Amateur I think some of us ARE messing with photography pretty bad. I noticed that as I try to learn more, I get more and more bull. It's like no one is taking serious my deep desire to learn, REALLY learn how to use my camera to take those breathtaking shots. Everyone keeps telling me what an "eye" I have, but I can't develop this "eye" into anything because a lot of the industry is dumbing the whole process down to the "kit" crowd or the extreme photoshoppers. A class I took a short while ago was filled with dads and their dlsr kits and some people with point and shoots. Fine, but Photography 101 turned out to be a joke.

I am taking some shots of my BIL and his son on Saturday. Not because he was going to have them done anywhere, he would never spend that kind of $$, but because he knows I love to take pics, so he is going to sit through me doing this, plus he gets some better then average shots. Am I taking business away from anyone, nope, he would not even go to Walmart to have shots done. So, yeah me, I get expierence without hurting someone's business.

A year ago I took pictures of a family members wedding. They had a 400$ budget. They really REALLY dint have the $ for a photographer. So, it became my wedding gift to them. I didn't take $ away from a professional, and got some good expierence in the process.

I don't know if those senerios are the types that make Pros mad, and if they are I am sorry. But as an Amateur I would NEVER think of doing a paid job for anyone, not for many years to come. I still can't get over the post of the woman opening a studio with a point and shoot, and here I was feeling willing with a 60D!




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tipidsale
Senior Member
331 posts
Likes: 8
Joined Sep 2011
     
Jul 13, 2012 00:54 |  #952

I was asked to shoot my friends wedding , declined her request and referred her to a friend of mine who professional shoots wedding with a reasonable package. I haven't shot any wedding , even as a second shooter. She insisted to the end. Me wanting to experience a wedding shoot accepted her request, the pics were my wedding gift for her. Until now and always,,, leave the pro shoots to the pro is my motto.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Kuma
Senior Member
Avatar
996 posts
Joined May 2007
Location: The Igloo spirit remains
     
Jul 13, 2012 07:16 |  #953

dtufino wrote in post #13747535 (external link)
The question is... is photography dying in the professional sense?

I'd take the pricing comment with a grain of salt.

A friend from work was just showing me his wedding photos. He had a really expensive photographer shoot his wedding. I was surprised at the shots that were out of focus and the noise in the finished prints. And the post processing was lackluster at best. Honestly if I hadn't known I would have thought it was a collection of photographs taken by people who attended the wedding. Sure the photographer put the photos into a fancy book and had all the typical prints that come with a high end package. But to me this looked like a under experienced photographer. The thing is my friend and his wife seemed very pleased with the photos. So I guess wedding photography is a different animal and a good entry field for new photographers.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
AltgnJoey
Senior Member
Avatar
885 posts
Likes: 127
Joined Sep 2011
     
Jul 13, 2012 11:22 |  #954

Lately I have been getting two classes of clients.

1. High End clients with the money who want quality shots, they are willing to pay the fair price for my services. They also have no problem paying $12 for a 5X7 print at 30 images. They also didnt think twice about a $50 8x10. These clients and their print orders are keeping me afloat but barely.

2. Price shoppers. These clients will not pay a fair price to the photographer, instead always looking for the cheapest route. Maybe economically they are not in the posistion to afford what I deem a fair price and I get that. Sometimes I'll try and work a deal with them with discounts, referrals and the like. Most of the time though they walk away and hire a kid looking to build his portfolio who charges nothing or next to nothing.

3. This entire year of business I have had one male client and he was on the higher end of the scale, call in for headshots. The majority of clients I deal with daily are women. Which in turn has had me thinking of unique ways of advertising to women, moms, engagement sessions, family and newborn photos.

Bottom line imo right now with this economy if you want a fair price for your services you need to market towards a higher end client, do your best work and wait for the referrals. Just out of the doing the ceo's headshot i got lined up with a real estate company that wants 43 headshots. a nice chunk of change.

The thing that kills me though and drives me to want to put a hole through a wall, is looking at the local studios in my area(Philadelphia/Sout​h Jersey), the ones who have a steady influx of clients and these studios are chraging peanuts for their work. I just don't get it. I'm sorry but I could never accept a beach session 60 miles away for a family of four for $100. I also would never think about a print package including 2 8X10's, 6 5X7's and 24 wallets for $30, what the f ing f are these people thinking. Ugh. Sometimes I want to email these idiots and tell them how they are f ing everything up for the rest of us.


https://500px.com/jose​ph-kurtz (external link)
www.josephkurtzphotogr​aphy.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Mark1972
Junior Member
21 posts
Joined Jan 2012
     
Jul 18, 2012 01:01 |  #955

tipidsale wrote in post #14709939 (external link)
I was asked to shoot my friends wedding , declined her request and referred her to a friend of mine who professional shoots wedding with a reasonable package. I haven't shot any wedding , even as a second shooter. She insisted to the end. Me wanting to experience a wedding shoot accepted her request, the pics were my wedding gift for her. Until now and always,,, leave the pro shoots to the pro is my motto.

I would never do "pro" Photography because it takes time away from things that are much more profitable. I only see Photography profitable if you have a team and a crap load of money and equipment for any job scenario. Then move to a big city for clients.

I'm asked all the time and decline as much as possible.


5d MkII

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
dinanm3atl
Goldmember
Avatar
3,123 posts
Likes: 109
Joined Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
     
Jul 18, 2012 01:14 |  #956

My opinion? It is improving it. Anyone can get a camera and pitch a job and take some pictures. True professionals will show up and with the same or less gear produce a better result. Look at some of the photography you see on this very forum. In my area of choice the shots you see are improving and going away from the standard work to more artistic shots.

I think in terms of the the professional realm it is improving.


Halston - MotorSports Photographer
1Dx - 1Dx - A7r - 400L f/2.8 - 70-200L f/2.8 - 24-105L f/4 - 17-40L f/4 - 50 f/1.4 - 8mm f/3.5 Fisheye - 1.4x TC - 2x TC
Photography Site (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Mark1972
Junior Member
21 posts
Joined Jan 2012
     
Jul 18, 2012 01:14 |  #957

AltgnJoey wrote in post #14711444 (external link)
Lately I have been getting two classes of clients.

1. High End clients with the money who want quality shots, they are willing to pay the fair price for my services. They also have no problem paying $12 for a 5X7 print at 30 images. They also didnt think twice about a $50 8x10. These clients and their print orders are keeping me afloat but barely.

2. Price shoppers. These clients will not pay a fair price to the photographer, instead always looking for the cheapest route. Maybe economically they are not in the posistion to afford what I deem a fair price and I get that. Sometimes I'll try and work a deal with them with discounts, referrals and the like. Most of the time though they walk away and hire a kid looking to build his portfolio who charges nothing or next to nothing.

3. This entire year of business I have had one male client and he was on the higher end of the scale, call in for headshots. The majority of clients I deal with daily are women. Which in turn has had me thinking of unique ways of advertising to women, moms, engagement sessions, family and newborn photos.

Bottom line imo right now with this economy if you want a fair price for your services you need to market towards a higher end client, do your best work and wait for the referrals. Just out of the doing the ceo's headshot i got lined up with a real estate company that wants 43 headshots. a nice chunk of change.

The thing that kills me though and drives me to want to put a hole through a wall, is looking at the local studios in my area(Philadelphia/Sout​h Jersey), the ones who have a steady influx of clients and these studios are chraging peanuts for their work. I just don't get it. I'm sorry but I could never accept a beach session 60 miles away for a family of four for $100. I also would never think about a print package including 2 8X10's, 6 5X7's and 24 wallets for $30, what the f ing f are these people thinking. Ugh. Sometimes I want to email these idiots and tell them how they are f ing everything up for the rest of us.

I agree. And this is not only with Photograpahy. It's everything from mobil recording studios to website design. When it comes to the web, you have those Indians over there only charging $8 an hour. They do 70% good work and people are happy. Wtf?

Part of the problem is technology. Anyone can get a near pro quality shot for a few hundred now. It just has to be "good enough" and better then Uncle Bob and people will pay for it.

I soon bailed from the Videography business when people started doing a full shoot and edit for only $100. I even had serious clients call me and they complimented my work and said it was amazing!! Then after a phone conversation tell me their budget was only $75 to $100. I was immediately insulted. What's more insulting is when Family asks you to shoot and you must do it for free of course.

EVERYONE is a Photographer now don't you see??? The more their are the less money you will make. With an economy we are in now I don't know how anyone makes it shooting Photos.


5d MkII

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Lowner
"I'm the original idiot"
Avatar
12,924 posts
Likes: 12
Joined Jul 2007
Location: Salisbury, UK.
     
Jul 18, 2012 03:38 |  #958

Mark1972 wrote in post #14733013 (external link)
....... It just has to be "good enough" and better then Uncle Bob and people will pay for it.

Surely "good enough" is all anyone wants. With all businesses and individual households struggling to balance budgets no one wants to spend more than they must.

If a business relies on these people for a living, then "good enough for the client" and no more must form the core of any proposal.


Richard

http://rcb4344.zenfoli​o.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jmwagner28
Junior Member
Avatar
29 posts
Joined May 2012
Location: Georgia
     
Jul 18, 2012 04:57 |  #959

I'm not sure amateurs are killing anything, it's the people who are hiring them. The advances in technology has allowed anyone who buys a dslr that they can shoot great photo's. I personally switched late from a film camera to digital for this reason because I felt people were calling themselves pros w/out any idea what the dials were outside of auto. I don't consider myself a pro but i'm not an amateur either and I feel that i still have alot to learn. I think the problem persist in those who stop learning and now adding video to that equation makes it even worse.

In the end people will pay for things they don't understand, why would someone who doesn't shoot professionally need a 21 mega pixel camera, but to the novice more pixels is better. The culture is want over need and look what I got....I just think take good pictures and keep pushing forward in your own abilities.


Own: Canon 1D MKIII & 40d
Canon 50 1.8 | 24-70 V1| 85 1.8 |70-200 f2.8 VI

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
mike_311
Checking squirrels nuts
3,761 posts
Gallery: 18 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 552
Joined Mar 2011
     
Jul 18, 2012 13:02 |  #960

i recently offered a promo for two weeks to generate referrals for a free session and i planned to make money off the prints.

i got a huge response, my inbox blew up, they all loved what they saw and couldn't wait to book a session. I told them the session was free and i would only charge them for prints, they were fine with that, then i send my price list and nothing,.. not even a reply to my follow up emails.

i did get one client spend close to $500 on prints and licensing for website photos so i haven't lost any money shooting and i had another shoot the other night where the couple plans to get some prints. but just starting out, i honestly have no idea what the heck people expect to spend on photos my prices aren't astronomical. in fact I'd bet im on the lower end of the pricing scale. we are only talking a $100 or so in prints i expect to get. i was mainly looking to spread my name more and i only got two clients willing to buy prints?

photography has always been one of those non necessities tat people spent disposable income on, so now that times are tight that cut it out, point is even us mere hobbiests are feeling the pinch.


Canon 5d mkii | Canon 17-40/4L | Tamron 24-70/2.8 | Canon 85/1.8 | Canon 135/2L
www.michaelalestraphot​ography.com (external link)
Flickr (external link) | 500px (external link) | About me

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

130,643 views & 0 likes for this thread
Are Amateurs destroying Photography
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is CoryM
821 guests, 283 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.