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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 22 Jul 2012 (Sunday) 13:03
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EOS M officially announced

 
Hogloff
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Jul 24, 2012 11:45 |  #316
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krb wrote in post #14762522 (external link)
You are wrong here.

Not about the fact that it is probably not a good fit for your specific style of shooting. It sounds like it won't be a good fit for that any more than it'd be a good fit for shooting fast moving sports or birds in flight.

You are wrong because most people don't have your specific needs and this camera will function just fine in those cases. If the camera doesn't do what you need them simply don't by one. But saying that nobody else should buy one because it doesn't meet your needs is just lame.

Fair enough, for my needs, is sucks...but I have not heard anyone indicate exactly how this camera will cover their needs. I've heard people get excited about sticking their existing lenses onto this...but why? What need is that covering? You still have to carry a bag of lenses with you along with this P&S.

Seems to me people are trying to justify a purchase without really knowing what need they are filling. I've seen this with many people here buying gear just for the sake of it. If that is their need, then I guess this will fill it.




  
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dinanm3atl
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Jul 24, 2012 11:46 as a reply to  @ post 14762478 |  #317

Hogloff wrote in post #14762477 (external link)
Also, you would have to hold this camera with one hand and use the other hand to operate the touch screen. How steady can you hold the camera with an EF lens on it with one hand. Good luck with that.

I dunno. Will have to get it into my hand first before I make a judgement like that. I can hand hold a 300/2.8 or 500/4 with a grip'd 7D... at least for a little while. Don't foresee this being a huge issue.

You can also use center point and recompose. I assume you do that a lot on street photography?

Hogloff wrote in post #14762468 (external link)
I do a lot of street shooting where I need to track the subject and get the shot at the right split second. I have an iPhone and I cannot do that with any success. I really don't see this P&S being any better. You'll miss shots plain and simple as you fiddle around with the touch screen and try to compose on and LCD when the sun is shining. Tell me I am wrong here.


I can clearly see my LCD screens in bright sunlight so not sure why this screen is going to be an issue.


It is obvious you think this is a terrible product and will not buy it. So why do you keep replying and trying to convince me that it is so terrible? This is one thing on this forum that I never understood. Every thread seems to always have a group of naysayers just in threads to be negative. If the camera is not for you why are adamant to put it down and explain why, in your opinion, it sucks. Ignoring the fact you have yet to even shoot with it.


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Jul 24, 2012 11:48 |  #318

Tommydigi wrote in post #14762352 (external link)
Yea I agree but its a nice option to have for certain lenses, I don't know if I would use it with a 70-200 or something like that.

I think most people who would want a camera like this would be more likely to get the one that gives them the option to attach lenses they currently own, especially with the 40mm pancake. The 22 and 40 would make a great tiny setup.

If you're in the market for a small camera with a big sensor, as a backup/alternative hike/travel kit, for example, this may be for you - an added benefit for some, is the option of using the EF lenses you may already own. If you're not in the market for a small camera with a big sensor, this is not for you. Simple, huh? No whining needed.


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krb
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Jul 24, 2012 11:50 |  #319

Hogloff wrote in post #14762477 (external link)
Also, you would have to hold this camera with one hand and use the other hand to operate the touch screen. How steady can you hold the camera with an EF lens on it with one hand. Good luck with that.

Now you are really stretching things. If you are holding the camera properly then the left hand should be supporting all of the weight anyway.

Using my 4/3 camera my left hand is supporting the camera just like an SLR, my right hand is gripping it just like it would be on an SLR, my right index finger is on the shutter button just like an SLR, and my right thumb is working the controls, just like an SLR. The fact that many of the controls are on a touchscreen rather than a set of buttons and wheels does not change any of that.


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Hogloff
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Jul 24, 2012 11:51 |  #320
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dinanm3atl wrote in post #14762540 (external link)
I dunno. Will have to get it into my hand first before I make a judgement like that. I can hand hold a 300/2.8 or 500/4 with a grip'd 7D... at least for a little while. Don't foresee this being a huge issue.

You can also use center point and recompose. I assume you do that a lot on street photography?

I can clearly see my LCD screens in bright sunlight so not sure why this screen is going to be an issue.


It is obvious you think this is a terrible product and will not buy it. So why do you keep replying and trying to convince me that it is so terrible? This is one thing on this forum that I never understood. Every thread seems to always have a group of naysayers just in threads to be negative. If the camera is not for you why are adamant to put it down and explain why, in your opinion, it sucks. Ignoring the fact you have yet to even shoot with it.

There is nothing wrong with balancing the "love-in" group with the nay-sayers. Everyone has their opinions on a product and all are equal. I am not trying to convince you to do anything. That is totally up to you how you want to spend you cash. I just post how I see it. If you don't like my posts, just don't read them. They are not personal, other than they are my own opinions.




  
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Hogloff
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Jul 24, 2012 11:54 |  #321
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krb wrote in post #14762568 (external link)
Now you are really stretching things. If you are holding the camera properly then the left hand should be supporting all of the weight anyway.

Using my 4/3 camera my left hand is supporting the camera just like an SLR, my right hand is gripping it just like it would be on an SLR, my right index finger is on the shutter button just like an SLR, and my right thumb is working the controls, just like an SLR. The fact that many of the controls are on a touchscreen rather than a set of buttons and wheels does not change any of that.

Yes it does. To operate the touch screen, you will have to release the grip with you right hand, which leaves you holding the entire camera and lens with your left hand. I use a DSLR and never do my hands leave hold of the camera. I can hold the iPhone with one hand and use the touch screen with the other, but an iPhone is very small. Think about doing this with the P&S and an EF lens ( 70-200 ) attached to it. Not that simple as it sounds.




  
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diableri
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Jul 24, 2012 12:04 |  #322

Hogloff wrote in post #14762578 (external link)
Yes it does. To operate the touch screen, you will have to release the grip with you right hand, which leaves you holding the entire camera and lens with your left hand. I use a DSLR and never do my hands leave hold of the camera. I can hold the iPhone with one hand and use the touch screen with the other, but an iPhone is very small. Think about doing this with the P&S and an EF lens ( 70-200 ) attached to it. Not that simple as it sounds.

These just seem like silly concerns to me. I'd never use this camera like this. I'd always use a smaller wider lens on it and it would almost always be in my vest pocket while my larger body and lens would be slung. Why on earth would someone even be debating this goofy scenario? The versatility is that I might also like to throw on a high end macro lens on it where I could take my time where none of these concerns matter as well. And not having to swap lenses more often.

EDIT: Also, pod the big lens for stability? If someone was determined, I imagine they'd get around the limitations wouldn't they? Browse through the pictures of photographers thread. There's certainly plenty of people shooting eh hem, unconventionally.




  
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HyperYagami
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Jul 24, 2012 12:05 |  #323

Hogloff wrote in post #14762578 (external link)
Think about doing this with the P&S and an EF lens ( 70-200 ) attached to it. Not that simple as it sounds.

it does not, and no one is expecting you to. just because you can doesn't mean everyone's going to put a big lens on it and declare it useless.

using conventional SLR wisdom and specific scenarios for arguments is destined to failure because of obvious biasness.



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krb
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Jul 24, 2012 12:15 |  #324

Hogloff wrote in post #14762538 (external link)
Fair enough, for my needs, is sucks...but I have not heard anyone indicate exactly how this camera will cover their needs. I've heard people get excited about sticking their existing lenses onto this...but why? What need is that covering? You still have to carry a bag of lenses with you along with this P&S.

Being able to use existing lenses is simply a bonus, not a critical requirement. A small, light camera with a decent normal or slightly wider than normal prime is a great solution for many, many tasks.

I don't see myself slapping the 100-400 or 70-200/2.8 on this little thing but I can see something like this taking over as my macro camera. I usually shoot macro by setting the focus to the desired distance and then using live view and moving the camera back and forth to focus so this thing could be perfect, especially if they add an articulated screen to a future model.

I could also see myself using this as a landscape camera, especially if I have to hike a distance along the way.

I have a 1Ds for portrait work and a 7D for sports and wildlife, but for anything else I usually just grab the 4/3 camera I bought last year. This Canon is the same size (actually very slightly smaller and lighter) than my 4/3 camera but it has a larger sensor and it will allow me to use the rest of my Canon lenses if I ever feel the need. When I decide to upgrade my 4/3 camera, the Canon offering is likely to be at the top of the list.


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dinanm3atl
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Jul 24, 2012 12:27 |  #325

Hogloff wrote in post #14762538 (external link)
Fair enough, for my needs, is sucks...but I have not heard anyone indicate exactly how this camera will cover their needs. I've heard people get excited about sticking their existing lenses onto this...but why? What need is that covering? You still have to carry a bag of lenses with you along with this P&S.

Seems to me people are trying to justify a purchase without really knowing what need they are filling. I've seen this with many people here buying gear just for the sake of it. If that is their need, then I guess this will fill it.

I have said multiple times how I would use it. I shoot motorsports and having this with the 22mm kit would be awesome in the pit and paddock. Saves me from lugging a dSLR from the media center to the paddock to get those shots. Carry an UWA with me and adapter just in case.

I would also carry just that on a trip. Last night at dinner I had the 7D, 17-40 and flash over my shoulder. Get to dinner table and pain in the ass where am I going to put this thing... under the table by my feet. The EOS-M would have been perfect and gotten the same results.

Hogloff wrote in post #14762578 (external link)
Yes it does. To operate the touch screen, you will have to release the grip with you right hand, which leaves you holding the entire camera and lens with your left hand. I use a DSLR and never do my hands leave hold of the camera. I can hold the iPhone with one hand and use the touch screen with the other, but an iPhone is very small. Think about doing this with the P&S and an EF lens ( 70-200 ) attached to it. Not that simple as it sounds.


Left hand on the lens. Right on the controls. This is how everyone I have seen uses a dSLR. Now sure why this is such a crazy concept because it has a touch screen. The camera does not look that big. I foresee the thumb being used to operate focus points. Actually changing settings might require a little more work but the same can be said on a dSLR for that.


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krb
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Jul 24, 2012 12:28 |  #326

Hogloff wrote in post #14762578 (external link)
Yes it does. To operate the touch screen, you will have to release the grip with you right hand, which leaves you holding the entire camera and lens with your left hand. I use a DSLR and never do my hands leave hold of the camera. I can hold the iPhone with one hand and use the touch screen with the other, but an iPhone is very small. Think about doing this with the P&S and an EF lens ( 70-200 ) attached to it. Not that simple as it sounds.

Are you really going to argue this? Do you really think that you know better than I do how I have been using my camera for the past 9 months? Seriously?

I'm not talking about how I've been using an iPhone either. I am talking about how I have been using a Panasonic m4/3 camera that is the same size, shape and weight as this new Canon. The grip is just like an SLR, the only differences are that you hold it farther from your face and your right thumb is tapping a touch screen rather than hitting buttons or spinning dials. If you insist on bringing the iPhone into this discussion then don't think about how you take pictures with it. Think about how you type on it. Are you holding it with one hand and hunt-peck typing with one finger or are you holding it with both hands and tapping the screen with your thumbs? Same thing on the camera. Both hands holding it and the thumb taps the screen.


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Charlie
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Jul 24, 2012 12:34 |  #327

AJSJones wrote in post #14762553 (external link)
If you're in the market for a small camera with a big sensor, as a backup/alternative hike/travel kit, for example, this may be for you - an added benefit for some, is the option of using the EF lenses you may already own. If you're not in the market for a small camera with a big sensor, this is not for you. Simple, huh? No whining needed.

I dont think it's a good backup kit. It'll cost a cool 1000 bucks for the camera and adapter.

As for small camera with big sensor, the rebel t2i is only 530g, a full 230g heavier than the eos-m, but when you factor in the flash and adapter, the weight savings will probably be less than 100g. At that point it doesnt have much going for it.

even if you're in the market for one as a primary camera, this particular one seems very very weak, though this can be a very good platform for future mirrorless cameras, first impression so far sucks to me.


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Hogloff
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Jul 24, 2012 12:55 |  #328
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HyperYagami wrote in post #14762623 (external link)
it does not, and no one is expecting you to. just because you can doesn't mean everyone's going to put a big lens on it and declare it useless.

using conventional SLR wisdom and specific scenarios for arguments is destined to failure because of obvious biasness.

There was a person ( don't recall who ) in this thread stating the P&S would make a good backup to their DSLR. What I laid out would be an exact scenario if one was to use these in a backup role. I just don't see the P&S being a better backup camera than a low cost Rebel.




  
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Yohan ­ Pamudji
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Jul 24, 2012 13:03 |  #329

I'm gonna take up with Hogloff here and say that he has a point. Due to the lack of physical controls on this camera (let's not bring other cameras like m4/3 into it) only people with huge hands will be able to keep both hands gripped in ready-to-shoot position and operate the touchscreen at the same time. Us mere mortals will have to move our left/right hand toward the screen and away from natural shooting position to operate the touchscreen. This is in contrast to a typical DSLR where all the pertinent shooting settings are accessible on your right hand without significantly altering your grip. Whether this is a problem in use is a matter of opinion, but I don't think it can be denied that it's something that will occur for most people using this camera.




  
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HyperYagami
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Jul 24, 2012 13:10 |  #330

Yohan Pamudji wrote in post #14762886 (external link)
Due to the lack of physical controls on this camera (let's not bring other cameras like m4/3 into it) only people with huge hands will be able to keep both hands gripped in ready-to-shoot position and operate the touchscreen at the same time.

I failed to see why not.

This is clear the competitive model of Panasonic's GF3/5, which features no mode dial etc. If you look at Panasonic's line-up there are about 3 other product lines there. Whoever think this will be the only mirrorless Canon will ever come up with is on some serious strong drugs.

As a sidenote, Canon came out with an adapter and people **** and moan about attaching a EF 70-200mm and it becomes unbalance, while the same bunch of people would **** and moan if Canon not even bothered to come out with an adapter. See what's happening there?



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