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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 24 Jul 2012 (Tuesday) 17:53
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5DM3 + 85 1.8 or 5D2 + 85 1.2L

 
dgrPhotos
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Jul 25, 2012 07:55 |  #31

I'll just leave this here. ;)

http://youtu.be/Hy6sQp​q5BQI (external link)




  
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laxlife1234
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Jul 25, 2012 07:58 |  #32

pv94 wrote in post #14766788 (external link)
The size of the sensor only has an indirect influence on DOF. What does influence it most is focal length. To have the same angle as a 85mm/FF on a crop sensor, you will be using a 50mm. With a 50mm lens you have a deeper DOF at same aperture as with a 85mm.

this means that for a "portrait angle" your longer lens on FF will result in shallower depth of field than a shorter lens on crop.

cropping in post has nothing to do with that if you're still shooting at the same focal length...

What I was trying to say is that if you have the 85L on FF and crop, do a side by side comparison and crop the FF results to look exactly like the crop image, the results will almost be identical. I meant that the crop will most likely have better IQ due to more pixels.

I do know about the rest though, I've used both a 50 and 85 and even a 35mm lens on crop, because I liked the 50 the best and I knew it was the equivalent FOV on FF to an 85mm lens, I sold it and got the 85L when I was on FF.




  
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jimewall
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Jul 25, 2012 08:03 |  #33

laxlife1234 wrote in post #14765605 (external link)
Not many people seem to realize that the DOF is close to 0.2" which barely leaves anything in focus, the slightest movement puts the whole image out of focus. Not only that, but my 85L II was NOT slow to focus, yes, it could have been faster, but it was anything but slow, I was able to track hockey with the lens.

That is what I was implying when I said the OP would have less keepers (at least at the beginning). It may take some a little time (IMO) to get used to the shallow DOF.

By the way, yes wide open there is about 0.2" DOF at the MFD, it does get wider the farther you move away from your subject. (Just in case someone doesn't know this, so they are not scared away from the 85L.) But that that tiny DOF is one of the reasons to get the 85L, is it not? I don't think the f/1.8 is a slough here either, especially at close distances - it's just not the L. I wish I could justify the L, but right now I can't.


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Daan37
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Jul 25, 2012 08:23 |  #34

smorter wrote in post #14766672 (external link)
^ That's not true, "DOF" is perception based

Cropping won't change an out of focus image, but it will alter our perception of the region that looks in and out of focus

If you view a photo from 10 feet away, it will look to have more DOF than if you view it from 10cm away.

Similarly, a heavily cropped photo will look like it has less DOF than a loosely framed shot

Depends on how you look at it. Everybody looks at a picture differently to begin with. Perceptions differ. The same thing happens when you focus more on a subject after cropping unwanted details surrounding it. The perception of an image changes when you do PP on it. That's a fact. Not just by cropping, but also by adding contrast and color corrections (for example). But in a strict sense, DOF remains the same. This is captured at the time of shooting. It doesn't make sense to say that cropping makes a 1.2 shot a 1.4-2.0 shot. It makes sense to say that the image will look different.


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smorter
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Jul 25, 2012 08:42 |  #35

I agree the original wording was a bit funny about making f/1.2 look like f/1.4-2

But the in focus area and out of focus area aren't discrete areas, they are gradual transitions, so DOF will always be different depending on how you are viewing your image.


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laxlife1234
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Jul 25, 2012 08:43 |  #36

jimewall wrote in post #14766838 (external link)
That is what I was implying when I said the OP would have less keepers (at least at the beginning). It may take some a little time (IMO) to get used to the shallow DOF.

By the way, yes wide open there is about 0.2" DOF at the MFD, it does get wider the farther you move away from your subject. (Just in case someone doesn't know this, so they are not scared away from the 85L.) But that that tiny DOF is one of the reasons to get the 85L, is it not? I don't think the f/1.8 is a slough here either, especially at close distances - it's just not the L. I wish I could justify the L, but right now I can't.

Yes. When I first owned the 85L it was when I was on crop, then I realized I needed FF to really experience the lens to it's full potential and that's when I made the jump to FF.

I lucked out with a perfectly focusing 85L and 5DII - unfortunately my 5DII eventually went soft on me but that's another story.

Oh of course it becomes greater when you move away haha! I should have mentioned that, but I have done many shots at f/1.2, IMO landscapes look interesting when shot at f/1.2 and the lens IS sharp enough at f/1.2 to be used for virtually anything. To me the real reason to get the 85L II is because it is magical in it's own sense. SOOC images look fantastic, plus the compression of the lens and the sharpness. With the exception of the 200 f/2L the 85L is the sharpest fast prime I've ever owned, much sharper wide open than the 70-200, 24-70, 24L II, 35L, 50L, 50 1.4 (both canon and sigma), need I keep on going? Stop it down a bit and it remains razor sharp.

If the OP goes for the 5DII + 85L II combo he will not miss out on what the 5DIII has to offer because he will love the 85L so much. Rather, if he gets the 5DIII + 85 1.8 combo he will realize and start to think if it's a mistake to purchase the 85 1.8. If anything he will also be losing IQ from the 1.8 version, he will only gain IQ from the 1.2 version. Plus in the long run the 5DIII will keep dropping in price and become more affordable so eventually he can wind up getting the 5DIII for a lower price.




  
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laxlife1234
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Jul 25, 2012 08:55 |  #37

I might as well post up some pictures with their crops to prove that the 1.2 is a hell of a lens.

IMAGE: http://jacobskoglund.zenfolio.com/img/s3/v41/p542059166-3.jpg

IMAGE: http://jacobskoglund.zenfolio.com/img/s2/v61/p732385820-3.jpg

And one more:

IMAGE: http://jacobskoglund.zenfolio.com/img/s1/v49/p645920923-3.jpg

IMAGE: http://jacobskoglund.zenfolio.com/img/s1/v48/p729324771-3.jpg



  
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dgrPhotos
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Jul 25, 2012 09:01 |  #38

It is a hell of a lens at a hell of a weight. Something to consider when choosing.




  
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smorter
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Jul 25, 2012 09:07 |  #39

Good idea with the shots!

Some recent 85L II shots from me - shots the 85 f/1.8 can't achieve (since they're at f/1.2 :P):

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Lore
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Jul 25, 2012 09:13 as a reply to  @ smorter's post |  #40

the 5d2 isnt that bad w/ a fast prime slapped on it, I 2nd the vote for 35L + 85 1.8


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laxlife1234
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Jul 25, 2012 10:16 |  #41

dgrPhotos wrote in post #14767033 (external link)
It is a hell of a lens at a hell of a weight. Something to consider when choosing.

That's also true. But then again, if he wants the best combo the 85L + 5DII is probably the best combo. I am starting to think that the 85L slapped onto a 5DII gives the best look.

Haha that's the truth! And I also want to note those are great examples of this lens. Wide open I've never used a lens as sharp as the 85L II, the shots I posted before, the first was at f/1.4 and the second IIRC at f/1.2. I can post up MANY more examples later on of shots at f/1.2 with crops just to prove this lens OWNS :lol:




  
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questionmarc
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Jul 25, 2012 13:27 |  #42

laxlife1234 wrote in post #14766748 (external link)
That made absolutely no sense. I don't think you realized that when I said the DOF is so thin with the 85L at near MFD you have 0.2" to get into focus.

I obviously exaggerated when I said that I never got stuff out of focus, but I had a keeper rate close to 90% when shooting at f/1.2. When something wasn't in focus, it was more or less my fault, not the cameras fault.

I'm also a fan of focus then recompose - I'm not sure if the OP is, but if he is, using the back focus button makes it a lot easier.

P.S. You're wrong about crop having more DOF, FF sensors have more DOF. I guarantee you that if you stick that 5DIII of yours on a tripod, shoot a subject and without changing the distance at all stick the 60D with the same lens you used for the 5DIII and crop FF image to look exactly like the 60D - maybe the 60D has little better quality due to the MP and not being cropped but you'll see it looks exactly the same. Reason why FF has more DOF is because you have the true MM length of the lens, it just appears to have less because it's not as cropped. Might want to take a look and read this (external link).

i dont think you are following me correctly here - everyone knows that shooting at f1.2 with a crop does not result in the same shallow DOF than a full frame camera if you are framing it the same - the crop will have a larger DOF at f1.2 than the FF


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MichaelAnthonyPhotography
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Jul 25, 2012 15:09 |  #43

Caekys wrote in post #14764596 (external link)
Go with the 5D3 route. It is not easy to focus with 85L f1.2 on 5D2, unless you only use the center point.

I bought the 5D3 specifically for 85L f1.2.

btw, first post.

I had no intentions of upgrading until I purchased the 85 1.2

Now I need a 5D3 to use it properly


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Caekys
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Jul 25, 2012 20:39 |  #44

questionmarc wrote in post #14766500 (external link)
you're funny

Opps, I guess having not enough sleep causes me to miss words here and there. English is not my first language, my apologies.

I meant thicker DOF "than" full frame. Anyway seems that you are the only one knows what I am talking about. ;)

For those who don't, just take a look at laxlife1234 samples. He posted a "fully framed' photo, and as well as a 100% cropped.

Doesn't the cropped image seems to look "stopped down" to you? With a deeper DOF look than what it was shot at?

It is true that cropping does not affect your focal length nor your subject distance. However with cropping, you are restricting your field of view(which indirectly affects the depth perception).

Hope I can explain better this time.


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chongkiat
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Jul 25, 2012 22:29 |  #45

I would go for better af body first , because 85mm f1.8 with full frame sensor is more than enough, i would prefer can focus accurately rather than soft/inaccurate focus from 5d2

With 85mm f1.2, the hit rate for focus recompose is small if using 5d2, useless u always using only the middle point and crop later

While using 5d3, u no need the focus recompose shoot, u can focus accurately even with outer focus, so if let me choose i will go for 85mmf1.8 + 5d3


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5DM3 + 85 1.8 or 5D2 + 85 1.2L
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