Canon entry level FF

theflyingkiwi wrote in post #14789143
of course they could do that, but why? they can't possibly create a new market and a new type of camera that would be ground breaking.

that's just stupid talk

sorry that post was full of sarcasm

Once the electronic viewfinder technology in mirrorless bodies is no longer "iffy", then mirrors will be an unneccesary waste of space and money. Until then it will remain and I believe it will be a long time coming.

Owain Glyndwr wrote in post #14789093
Is there any reason why they couldn't take an EF mount and a full-size sensor and put it in a mirrorless body? I have no idea of the tech or physics behind all this so it may be a dumb question, so sorry for that.

If you own a 5D2 or 5D3 (or 1Dx), press the button to get it into LiveView mode, and voila, you have what you asked for -- a camera with full-size sensor and EF mount, and no mirror-reflecting light into the optical viewfinder.

My point is: keeping the native EF mount will result in a bulky body not much smaller than current DSLRs, and for most people, that's defeating the purpose of going to a mirrorless body -- size saving.

The EF mount dictates a flange distance (distance between mount and sensor) of 44mm, so in a mirrorless body with EF mount, it still needs to keep the mount 44mm away from the sensor, even though there is no longer a mirror there. The resulting body will be as bulky as current FF DSLRs.

(You might be able to shave some height by removing the viewfinder bulge on top, but look at the EOS-M thread and you'll see the firestorm an absent viewfinder can generate.)

The same limitation applies to APS-C, that's why the EOS-M can be much smaller than a Rebel -- by abandoning the EF/EF-S mount, Canon can shorten the mount-to-sensor distance to only 12 mm (from 44 mm).

theflyingkiwi wrote in post #14789143
of course they could do that, but why? they can't possibly create a new market and a new type of camera that would be ground breaking.

I predict someday everyone will have a small portable phone with video and camera that utilizes a full frame sensor. And it will include GPS, internet, and apps

watt100 wrote in post #14790185
I predict someday everyone will have a small portable phone with video and camera that utilizes a full frame sensor. And it will include GPS, internet, and apps

You forgot to menion that it will be surgically implanted at birth.

RetroBlader wrote in post #14789635
The EF mount dictates a flange distance (distance between mount and sensor) of 44mm, so in a mirrorless body with EF mount, it still needs to keep the mount 44mm away from the sensor, even though there is no longer a mirror there. The resulting body will be as bulky as current FF DSLRs.

....

The same limitation applies to APS-C, that's why the EOS-M can be much smaller than a Rebel -- by abandoning the EF/EF-S mount, Canon can shorten the mount-to-sensor distance to only 12 mm (from 44 mm).

And this is why wide angle lenses are not as tiny as you might expect. When the focal length of the lens is shorter than the distance between the back of the lens elements and the sensor, corrective "retrofocus" (essentially an inverted telephoto lens) lens elements must be utilized to refocus the image to the sensor plane. Note that Canon's shortest full frame lens is the 40 f/2.8 pancake, which is but a couple of mm shorter than the 44 mm flange - sensor distance.

Having a shortened distance between the lens and the sensor allows for less correction needed on wide angle lenses. Hence, the 22 mm EOS-M lens size compared to, say, the 24/2.8 or 24/1.4L lenses. It needs very little, if any, retrofocus correction due to the shortened backfocus distance.

Note that the EF-S lenses take advantage of a slightly-shortened backfocus distance by allowing the rearmost portion of the lens to fit a few mm into the mirror box.

I like how the some of the same folks who argue you don't need a filter on a lens, just take good care of it and be careful,,,,use the hood! are the same purists who insist a plastic camera is NOT good enough, MUST be made of metal so it doesn't break when I accidentally smash it on the ground

Miyagi-san wrote in post #14791021
I like how the some of the same folks who argue you don't need a filter on a lens, just take good care of it and be careful,,,,use the hood! are the same purists who insist a plastic camera is NOT good enough, MUST be made of metal so it doesn't break when I accidentally smash it on the ground

I'm a hood advocate rather than a filter, simply because hoods don't adversely affect the optics but filters most certainly do. But as the owner of that wonderful plastic bodied camera the Eos-3 I have only admiration for plastic bodies.

watt100 wrote in post #14790185
I predict someday everyone will have a small portable phone with video and camera that utilizes a full frame sensor. And it will include GPS, internet, and apps

Oh look a pig just flew past the window.

FF will always be on bigger cameras due to it's size. Phone companies want everything to be as small as possible.

and the format we have today isn't going anywhere any time soon. Photographers will always want a bigger sensor. Hence why MF is still around. Bigger the better as they say.

Lowner wrote in post #14791083
I'm a hood advocate rather than a filter, simply because hoods don't adversely affect the optics but filters most certainly do. But as the owner of that wonderful plastic bodied camera the Eos-3 I have only admiration for plastic bodies.

i was 100% just joking, forgive my grumpiness i quit smoking recently and pretty much hate everything right now lol

Hope this is true so i can either go with this or a 5dm2

Miyagi-san wrote in post #14792357
I quit smoking recently and pretty much hate everything right now lol

Did that about 11 years ago - Took me a year or so to decide that I really didn't want to kill all mankind. LOL

Good job on quitting - in the long run, it's a very wise decision.

watt100 wrote in post #14790185
I predict someday everyone will have a small portable phone with video and camera that utilizes a full frame sensor. And it will include GPS, internet, and apps

Where's the Pez dispenser?

watt100 wrote in post #14790185
I predict someday everyone will have a small portable phone with video and camera that utilizes a full frame sensor. And it will include GPS, internet, and apps

Sounds good to me, sign me up!

Miyagi-san wrote in post #14792357
i was 100% just joking, forgive my grumpiness i quit smoking recently and pretty much hate everything right now lol

I've got thicker skin than that! Nothing to forgive.

Lowner wrote in post #14789300
Once the electronic viewfinder technology in mirrorless bodies is no longer "iffy", then mirrors will be an unneccesary waste of space and money.

flipping mirrors and hinged screens seem like mechanical relics already