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Thread started 09 Aug 2010 (Monday) 09:28
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STICKY: How to photograph a high school Senior

 
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sevillafox
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Aug 18, 2012 01:22 |  #8941

Well, look for localish towns too.


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sevillafox
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Aug 18, 2012 01:23 |  #8942

2nasty4u wrote in post #14873227 (external link)
Maybe you can post some of yours which ARE not IS better. :mad:

IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

IMG_3019 (external link) by Legnanomag (external link), on Flickr

(and before you say it, I see that 2 pieces of hair on the right side, didn't notice until after I uploaded :oops: but internet is super slow, so not uploading again)

Nice shot. Nice sharp eyes. The hairs, oh well. The posture sucks. She should be sitting up and not slouching. Though, for a senior shot I would lessen the undereye and crows feet lines.


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umphotography
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Aug 18, 2012 07:42 |  #8943

2nasty4u wrote in post #14872824 (external link)
I think this is a heavy opinion. I'm always drawn to naturally lit images (like Lisa's) and other photographers who shoot with natural light (reflectors sometimes). I think natural light always looks better than flashed images, you can tell when you use flash and it just has a different look to it. Cliche, in my opinion. I know there are some shots that are impossible without strobes or artificial lighting but the majority aren't. Underexposure takes 1 sec to correct and can be avoided if you meter correctly and check your settings. A lot of the new photographers in my area that shoot with natural light and only shoot flash when forced too (weddings etc.) are doing just as well too.

I'm sure it is all opinionated but I definitely disagree on the flash being the most important tool in a bag.

When you get some more experience you will change your mind. I can take shots with OCF flash and Ettl assistance and you would have no clue that it was done with a flash unless you zoomed in and saw the catch lights the eyes. MAKE NO MISTAKE, there is a place for natural light shots with reflectors but its not really natural at all. You are still using a device to put fill light into the face of a subject to remove shadows and racoon eyes. It SHOULD BE CALLED basic lighting techniques not Natural light.

ALSO, MAKE NO MISTAKE, while Lisas shots are awesome, her ability to capture light on her subjects does not stand out nearly as much as her awesome post processing capabilities....I know what comes off a camera file with natural light shots and a flash and i know what you have to do to get them to lisas presentation levels. I love lisa's work but i know enough about lighting to know that she has better post processing skills than myself and I think (not sure) she is using Ryan Brenizres shallow depth technique...Im experimenting with it now,,,pretty trick. Want to be perfectly clear that i think lisa is an excellent photographer and im not critical of her at all. she is extremely talented.


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phamster
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Aug 18, 2012 09:17 |  #8944

jmalonear wrote in post #14873145 (external link)
Does anyone use any of the Denny roll up floors? What are your thoughts? From what I can tell they are like a giant mousepad...am I right?

Jmalonear, i have 3 sets of the 8x10 wood floors, white, brown, and grey.

the build quality of the floors are as you say, "like a giant mouse pad" but i might add, that they are heavy duty mouse pads.. they are physically heavy. i have used the white one the most.

i have had them stored with a wrinkled condition over a months time and when i layed them out flat for nexts days use, they returned to being flat again..

sevillafox wrote in post #14873190 (external link)
I would agree with this in many cases.

Matter of opinion....some shots just can't be done without flash.

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umphotography wrote in post #14873982 (external link)
When you get some more experience you will change your mind. I can take shots with OCF flash and Ettl assistance and you would have no clue that it was done with a flash unless you zoomed in and saw the catch lights the eyes. MAKE NO MISTAKE, there is a place for natural light shots with reflectors but its not really natural at all. You are still using a device to put fill light into the face of a subject to remove shadows and racoon eyes. It SHOULD BE CALLED basic lighting techniques not Natural light.

ALSO, MAKE NO MISTAKE, while Lisas shots are awesome, her ability to capture light on her subjects does not stand out nearly as much as her awesome post processing capabilities....I know what comes off a camera file with natural light shots and a flash and i know what you have to do to get them to lisas presentation levels. I love lisa's work but i know enough about lighting to know that she has better post processing skills than myself and I think (not sure) she is using Ryan Brenizres shallow depth technique...Im experimenting with it now,,,pretty trick. Want to be perfectly clear that i think lisa is an excellent photographer and im not critical of her at all. she is extremely talented.


if you shoot only natural light then , you have to find the "RIGHT place to shoot" find that perfect natural light conditions. so in this case during a fast pace wedding i always have to find shade if the sun is out.. shoot in the shade for best results due to squinting eyes, and patchy bright spots in faces or body if you don't shoot in the shade. of course you can turn the subjects back to the sun if you have to. but in fast paced weddings you don't have time to set up lighting that is why most wedding shooters are just natural light shooters.. if you apply this to senior or portrait photography with more time for the shoot, then the photographer has more time to construct good natural light to get better results, but you have to shoot at the optimal time of the day for that perfect light..

as mike was talking about, Lisa H, she is very very good at her post processing.. and has a work flow that has her set apart from many.. many includes me too :), this process must have taken many years of development and most won't get half as far. but makes Lisa special is she know when to shoot and most importantly where to shoot with her natural light technique.

enter flash photography or light manipulated photography.

if you don't want flat looking photos or highly processed natural lighted images, then you must induce light to your images.. it is simple as that.
flash photography represents about 75 percent of printed or commercialized media. also if you watch tv, or movies, every single scene that is done with some type of light modifer, whether it is with a California sun bounce over head (diffuse light), or elaborate 2-3 light blends. the basic facts is if the camera captures the single light source of natural light (sun) the image will start off looking flat, then you have to process the image to get that flatness out of.

what is the most important fact is the the photographer himself or herself must make in their heads... what style works best for their concept or shooting style and or work flow.. what does the client want and how can we all achieve the common goal of making that great image that sells for the client or makes you, the photographer proud to say, yes, i made that image.

in the end, you all must have the skills to do both, the natural light and flash photography to become your local leader in this industry which is expanding at an amazing rate.


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bobbyz
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Aug 18, 2012 09:26 |  #8945

Phamster - nice to see you back.:)


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bobbyz
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Aug 18, 2012 09:33 |  #8946

sevillafox wrote in post #14873455 (external link)
Nice shot. Nice sharp eyes. The hairs, oh well. The posture sucks. She should be sitting up and not slouching. Though, for a senior shot I would lessen the undereye and crows feet lines.

Nice shot. Hair, I have same issues. Teeth too much white in pp.

Here try this sometime with natural light.

IMAGE: http://www.bobbyzphotography.com/img/s11/v32/p22818329-5.jpg

Here, I could have easily used reflectors.
IMAGE: http://www.bobbyzphotography.com/img/s10/v16/p574306934-5.jpg

Ambient or flash (catchlight gives it away)
IMAGE: http://www.bobbyzphotography.com/img/s1/v19/p102446989-4.jpg

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2nasty4u
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Aug 18, 2012 10:26 |  #8947

sevillafox wrote in post #14873455 (external link)
Nice shot. Nice sharp eyes. The hairs, oh well. The posture sucks. She should be sitting up and not slouching. Though, for a senior shot I would lessen the undereye and crows feet lines.

Haha, that makes sense. Definitely didn't catch the slouching until quite a few shots afterwards :confused:

umphotography wrote in post #14873982 (external link)
When you get some more experience you will change your mind. I can take shots with OCF flash and Ettl assistance and you would have no clue that it was done with a flash unless you zoomed in and saw the catch lights the eyes. MAKE NO MISTAKE, there is a place for natural light shots with reflectors but its not really natural at all. You are still using a device to put fill light into the face of a subject to remove shadows and racoon eyes. It SHOULD BE CALLED basic lighting techniques not Natural light.

ALSO, MAKE NO MISTAKE, while Lisas shots are awesome, her ability to capture light on her subjects does not stand out nearly as much as her awesome post processing capabilities....I know what comes off a camera file with natural light shots and a flash and i know what you have to do to get them to lisas presentation levels. I love lisa's work but i know enough about lighting to know that she has better post processing skills than myself and I think (not sure) she is using Ryan Brenizres shallow depth technique...Im experimenting with it now,,,pretty trick. Want to be perfectly clear that i think lisa is an excellent photographer and im not critical of her at all. she is extremely talented.

See, the funny thing is I thought that too. When I initially looked at this forum, I thought flash was the best thing in the world. But when I started actually getting into photography, it is then when I noticed, flash photography doesn't look as appealing as I initially thought. Call it what you may, I labeled it as natural because no artificial light is being introduced.

And about Lisa, that isn't the only example, but it is certainly the best. I have seen her before and after shots, I still prefer her before shots than something flash produced.

And not to take too much of a personal blow at you but you sure think your way is the only way. For example....

"When you get some more experience you will change your mind."

You make points like these with a factual tone. Let me be clear, photography is opinion orientated. This is my opinion, flash is yours. Please keep this in mind.

phamster wrote in post #14874182 (external link)
Jmalonear, i have 3 sets of the 8x10 wood floors, white, brown, and grey.

the build quality of the floors are as you say, "like a giant mouse pad" but i might add, that they are heavy duty mouse pads.. they are physically heavy. i have used the white one the most.

i have had them stored with a wrinkled condition over a months time and when i layed them out flat for nexts days use, they returned to being flat again..

if you shoot only natural light then , you have to find the "RIGHT place to shoot" find that perfect natural light conditions. so in this case during a fast pace wedding i always have to find shade if the sun is out.. shoot in the shade for best results due to squinting eyes, and patchy bright spots in faces or body if you don't shoot in the shade. of course you can turn the subjects back to the sun if you have to. but in fast paced weddings you don't have time to set up lighting that is why most wedding shooters are just natural light shooters.. if you apply this to senior or portrait photography with more time for the shoot, then the photographer has more time to construct good natural light to get better results, but you have to shoot at the optimal time of the day for that perfect light..

as mike was talking about, Lisa H, she is very very good at her post processing.. and has a work flow that has her set apart from many.. many includes me too :), this process must have taken many years of development and most won't get half as far. but makes Lisa special is she know when to shoot and most importantly where to shoot with her natural light technique.

enter flash photography or light manipulated photography.

if you don't want flat looking photos or highly processed natural lighted images, then you must induce light to your images.. it is simple as that.
flash photography represents about 75 percent of printed or commercialized media. also if you watch tv, or movies, every single scene that is done with some type of light modifer, whether it is with a California sun bounce over head (diffuse light), or elaborate 2-3 light blends. the basic facts is if the camera captures the single light source of natural light (sun) the image will start off looking flat, then you have to process the image to get that flatness out of.

what is the most important fact is the the photographer himself or herself must make in their heads... what style works best for their concept or shooting style and or work flow.. what does the client want and how can we all achieve the common goal of making that great image that sells for the client or makes you, the photographer proud to say, yes, i made that image.

in the end, you all must have the skills to do both, the natural light and flash photography to become your local leader in this industry which is expanding at an amazing rate.


Couldn't have said it better myself! Very wise words!:D




  
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Aug 18, 2012 14:27 |  #8948

2nasty4u wrote in post #14874436 (external link)
Haha, that makes sense. Definitely didn't catch the slouching until quite a few shots afterwards :confused:

See, the funny thing is I thought that too. When I initially looked at this forum, I thought flash was the best thing in the world. But when I started actually getting into photography, it is then when I noticed, flash photography doesn't look as appealing as I initially thought. Call it what you may, I labeled it as natural because no artificial light is being introduced.

I cringe when I look at my work from 2 years ago, back when I only did available light for outdoor portraits. I hate dark eyes, part of my style is capturing people's eyes.

flash does work better as fill and not the main source when outside for most situations though, unless you get towards sunset. :)


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Aug 18, 2012 15:05 |  #8949

Good discussion. I like Pham's response. I know what style I want (generally), but am still in the process of making it happen. GerryDavid, I cringe when I look at my work from 2 years ago too. Just in general, not relative to any specific style of lighting :)

For what it's worth, I think Lisa's finished work is absolutely top notch - something to be aspired to. Pham's right about the foundation for that probably being knowing when/where to shoot, but even so, for me to get anything like that, I'd have to spend way longer in post than I want to. My aspiration is to get enough control over artificial light to avoid as much post processing as I can, and still have the images come out looking similar to Lisa's styel. Essentially in line with that last image Bobby posted.


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Aug 18, 2012 15:05 |  #8950

phamster wrote in post #14874182 (external link)
Jmalonear, i have 3 sets of the 8x10 wood floors, white, brown, and grey.

the build quality of the floors are as you say, "like a giant mouse pad" but i might add, that they are heavy duty mouse pads.. they are physically heavy. i have used the white one the most.

i have had them stored with a wrinkled condition over a months time and when i layed them out flat for nexts days use, they returned to being flat again..

Thanks so much....I ordered the Ivory Whitewash wood last night. Since I will be primarily using this for the babies and children I shoot, I went with the 4X5 floor. It was on Sale for $100 shipping and all! So with that small I am thinking that I wont have to worry about wrinkle that much anyways, it should roll up pretty small. Thanks again...can't wait to get it now!!


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Aug 18, 2012 15:40 |  #8951

I need suggestions for my next denny backdrop! I had a good senior sales session today and I really need to build up my studio for the winter so I think its time for a 4th denny drop. :)

Kirk Voclain mentinoed a good one in his denny dvd but I cant remember its name and I have to find the time to watch the dvd's again to see which one it was. It had vertical colors and they are easy to shift to suit the subjects colors to compliment them with hue/sat due to being shades of gray/blue/green.

Idealy this next drop will be good for winter/Christmas but not be Christmas per se.


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Aug 18, 2012 15:53 |  #8952

bobbyz wrote in post #14872845 (external link)
Most natural light folks say so as they don't know how to use flash.:D I know I am opening can of worms.

Would you think more or less light on this? And why? Think I posted this a few weeks ago, but added in relation to the lighting conversation. 1/2000 sec and ISO 125 at f/1.6 with 50mm ... Where would you add or subtract light on something like this?

I've got two 430EX II flash units and two 7 foot stands with wireless triggers.

...


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Aug 18, 2012 16:09 |  #8953

mdvaden flash jn a small softbox from camera left comjng down would put more nice light on her face. Don't need much for that shot but those eyes need just little more light. Having grid on that softbox nicer to control light spill on that white dress.


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Aug 18, 2012 16:44 |  #8954

GerryDavid wrote in post #14875275 (external link)
I need suggestions for my next denny backdrop! I had a good senior sales session today and I really need to build up my studio for the winter so I think its time for a 4th denny drop. :)

Kirk Voclain mentinoed a good one in his denny dvd but I cant remember its name and I have to find the time to watch the dvd's again to see which one it was. It had vertical colors and they are easy to shift to suit the subjects colors to compliment them with hue/sat due to being shades of gray/blue/green.

Idealy this next drop will be good for winter/Christmas but not be Christmas per se.

i agree, we need backdrops that are edgy, but serves both genders...
i love the idea of red curtains, so i went out and got some.. :)

bought 6 sections from IKEA 9 feet tall, velvet red.. i think they were 45 dollars for each sections...

we still need to steam them yet..

red for Christmas you say?


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GerryDavid
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Aug 18, 2012 16:52 |  #8955

mdvaden wrote in post #14875307 (external link)
Would you think more or less light on this? And why? Think I posted this a few weeks ago, but added in relation to the lighting conversation. 1/2000 sec and ISO 125 at f/1.6 with 50mm ... Where would you add or subtract light on something like this?

I've got two 430EX II flash units and two 7 foot stands with wireless triggers.

...

1/2000 at what f stop? :) Must have been wide open at iso 125.


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