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Thread started 29 Aug 2012 (Wednesday) 16:14
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Richard Atkin Photography - illegal image use

 
Todd ­ Lambert
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Sep 04, 2012 17:49 |  #76

So now, his name will forever have this tarnish to it.

I don't know that I buy the story, but honestly, guys like this, are not the ones that I worry about, since he actually responded to you.

The real bad guys out there will have no qualms at outright ignoring you from the word go. The only recourse would be DMCAs.

Otherwise, I'd just contact someone, ask them to remove it(after the option of licensing it to them first) and then go on my way. You've got a 50/50 chance of getting something where you'd normally get nothing.

I dunno. This thread was a lot of bravado about rights, infringement, etc.. but in the end, you got lucky to get a response, and that you did is great. But, this at the cost of ruining this guy online forever, and potentially doing harm to POTN. (as this happens more and more, it gets known that POTN is a good place to take out your competition, etc.. since it can't really be validated, etc..)

As I said, I am all for your assertiveness and go-getum attitude - that's awesome. I only question what value it has here on POTN and at what expense.




  
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gmcoulton
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Sep 04, 2012 17:52 |  #77

razyl wrote in post #14947938 (external link)
This is hopefully the final word on this thread - Richard Atkin just sent me an email apologising for what has happened. He said he has been away on holiday and during that time gave a friend of his son (an IT major) control of his website and facebook page in order to maintain a social presence and generate wedding bookings, and this was how the images and text were used.

And here lies the moral dilemma of Name and Shame. If Richard is lying to cover his own and is in fact responsible for knowingly stealing someone else's work then the correct legal channels would uncover that.

But what if... It's true?

What if Richard did in fact leave his website and Facebook in the hands of his sons friend to maintain an online presence, what if he was unaware of what his sons friend was doing or posting on his behalf? Would Richard now have a defimation cliam against the original poster and anyone on here who has publically "outed" him as a fraud?

I'm not saying he is telling the truth, but these are the things you must be mindful of before naming and shaming anyone.

If he in fact, knowingly, stole the photos, than he is indeed in the wrong and should be dealt with accordingly. But if he infact was unaware of what was happening until now, than the posters on POTN could very well be responsible for destroying the career of someone.


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Jimconnerphoto
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Sep 04, 2012 18:06 |  #78

You only have to worry about defamation of character if it is not true. It is still his website and his option to pass the controls over to someone else. He is ultimately responsible regardless.
If Richard did in fact trust another party then Richard may sue that other party if he were to be sued or suffer from their actions.


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mckay ­ photography
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Sep 04, 2012 18:11 |  #79

zagiace wrote in post #14948059 (external link)
You only have to worry about defamation of character if it is not true. It is still his website and his option to pass the controls over to someone else. He is ultimately responsible regardless.
If Richard did in fact trust another party then Richard may sue that other party if he were to be sued or suffer from their actions.

I accept there are serious issues with naming and shaming - both legal and moral. I would be surprised there are any grounds for a legal defamation case, however the moral case is what I think people are uncomfortable with here. I agree we should be careful and not start some kind of witch hunt without good evidence or fair consideration of the situation. My first post wasnt overly spiteful or personal and most of the comments were made in a similar tone.

His apology was great and I really appreciated him making contact and it shows he's a decent guy.

His excuse regarding how it all happened I guess we can never verify but my thinking is it's not enough to say "it was my web designer" or "someone else did it". Ultimately you need to have control over YOUR site & YOUR facebook page.


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NewEnglandPhotographer
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Sep 04, 2012 18:15 |  #80

razyl wrote in post #14947938 (external link)
Richard Atkin just sent me an email apologising for what has happened. He said he has been away on holiday and during that time gave a friend of his son (an IT major) control of his website and facebook page in order to maintain a social presence and generate wedding bookings, and this was how the images and text were used.

Seems a bit too convenient, don't you think? What self-employed photographer hands over the keys to his most precious marketing device; his web presence, to a friend of his son.

On vacation? As a self-employed worker, who would effectively hand over the reigns to their company for a couple of weeks to someone with zero experience in the business. Also, an IT student should know better than to put random images on a PHOTOGRAPHY website! It just doesn't add up!

gmcoulton wrote in post #14948009 (external link)
What if Richard did in fact leave his website and Facebook in the hands of his sons friend to maintain an online presence, what if he was unaware of what his sons friend was doing or posting on his behalf? Would Richard now have a defimation cliam against the original poster and anyone on here who has publically "outed" him as a fraud?

Anywho;

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:D


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NewEnglandPhotographer
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Sep 04, 2012 18:19 |  #81

btw, he can't sue us because he DID steal the images... he said so in your email. Now, "HE" did not, but "SOMEBODY" he appointed to oversee his business website did. In other words his professional site contains stolen images, and that is enough to make our statements accurate.


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mckay ­ photography
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Sep 04, 2012 18:23 |  #82

ewheeler20 wrote in post #14948091 (external link)
Seems a bit too convenient, don't you think? What self-employed photographer hands over the keys to his most precious marketing device; his web presence, to a friend of his son.

On vacation? As a self-employed worker, who would effectively hand over the reigns to their company for a couple of weeks to someone with zero experience in the business. Also, an IT student should know better than to put random images on a PHOTOGRAPHY website! It just doesn't add up!

As much as I have my doubts over an excuse for this kind of thing I dont think we can make any conclusions that his story isnt true. Let's just take it at face value and move on :) I appreciate his apology regardless of the situation.

Although I did like the excuse one guy made recently after using Sue Bryce's (Australian portrait photographer) work as his own: someone hacked into my website and uploaded all the images.....yeh, right.


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Simplistic
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Sep 04, 2012 18:32 |  #83

I'm sorry, but I don't know if that is totally true. A son's friend wouldn't steal photos and set up a website like that...

Plus, he's 100% responsible, and I hope there is some sort of law that enforces that.

"Someone took my hand and pulled the trigger".

"Someone else put the drugs in the trunk of my car".

"Someone else logged onto my wifi network and downloaded illegal images".

But then again, here goes the endless blame game. Let's give it a rest - at least he responded and hopefully changes his website.


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memoriesoftomorrow
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Sep 04, 2012 18:59 |  #84

Funny how the response came after this thread gave the "story" / "excuse" and not before.


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Jimconnerphoto
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Sep 04, 2012 19:23 |  #85

Op, if you are satisfied that it is finished then it is.
I mentioned earlier in this thread about a similar situation where a number of my shots were stolen. I just wanted to make sure it stopped. I have no time to "take action".


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rob0225
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Sep 04, 2012 19:35 |  #86

razyl wrote in post #14947938 (external link)
This is hopefully the final word on this thread - Richard Atkin just sent me an email apologising for what has happened. He said he has been away on holiday and during that time gave a friend of his son (an IT major) control of his website and facebook page in order to maintain a social presence and generate wedding bookings, and this was how the images and text were used.

I don't buy it.


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siddr20
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Sep 04, 2012 21:08 |  #87

Seems a bit too convenient, don't you think? What self-employed photographer hands over the keys to his most precious marketing device; his web presence, to a friend of his son.

On vacation? As a self-employed worker, who would effectively hand over the reigns to their company for a couple of weeks to someone with zero experience in the business. Also, an IT student should know better than to put random images on a PHOTOGRAPHY website! It just doesn't add up!

EXACTLY!!!

and to generate wedding bookings?? really?

I would never hand over anything to anyone no matter how long I'm away on holidays. Also wouldnt you check the progress especially on Facebook every few days.

If you are going on holidays I would just state so on facebook and my blog page. Also create an auto reply for emails.

Surely doesn't add up.


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Sep 04, 2012 21:48 |  #88

From an Ethical standpoint, was the Atkins fella contacted and allowed time to respond, prior to posting here and/or on his Facebook account? He does deesrve an opportunity to correct and explain before being exposed. Simple idea of "presumed" innocence before being proven guilty. Maybe I overlooked the detail of that, or not?

Either way, very intersting and scary thread, particulary the one of a Photog with 2 of his 3 albums being admitted frauds!


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NewEnglandPhotographer
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Sep 04, 2012 21:54 |  #89

CanonCameraFan wrote in post #14948914 (external link)
From an Ethical standpoint, was the Atkins fella contacted and allowed time to respond, prior to posting here and/or on his Facebook account? He does deesrve an opportunity to correct and explain before being exposed. Simple idea of "presumed" innocence before being proven guilty. Maybe I overlooked the detail of that, or not?

Either way, very intersting and scary thread, particulary the one of a Photog with 2 of his 3 albums being admitted frauds!

If a coat was stolen from a store and was found to be in possession by Mr. X, would you allow him to return it before casting judgement?!? uh... no... He has the coat illegally one way or another regardless of how he got it.

The images were obviously stolen because the owner of said images did not sell them to the atkins guy. Why should the atkins guy be allowed to take the images down and tell us some random excuse before he is called a thief?


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Todd ­ Lambert
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Sep 04, 2012 22:07 |  #90

Eric don't confuse theft and copyright violation, they're very different.




  
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