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FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Sports 
Thread started 31 Aug 2012 (Friday) 22:11
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So how do yo do it? (Strobed Football)

 
burnet44
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Sep 04, 2012 19:19 |  #16

I use a flash sometimes after games for face shots
no one cares then


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Sep 10, 2012 22:42 |  #17

I used standard xsync at 2 stops above ambient for years, but I now prefer high ISO with hypersync. PW TT5 gives me 1.68 stops better than HSS, and using 3 speedlites lets me get extra reach and still allows 3 consecutive shots...

IMAGE: http://loco-photo.com/images/tt5-rig1.jpg

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IMAGE: http://loco-photo.com/images/2012-08-31_2281.jpg

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IMAGE: http://loco-photo.com/images/2012-08-31_2290.jpg

3.
IMAGE: http://loco-photo.com/images/2012-08-31_2303.jpg

4.
IMAGE: http://loco-photo.com/images/2012-08-31_2307.jpg

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Station15
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Sep 11, 2012 05:05 |  #18

clarence wrote in post #14974842 (external link)
I used standard xsync at 2 stops above ambient for years, but I now prefer high ISO with hypersync. PW TT5 gives me 1.68 stops better than HSS, and using 3 speedlites lets me get extra reach and still allows 3 consecutive shots...

Img

1.
Img

2.
Img

3.
Img

4.
Img

What ISO are these shot at? I might grab another speedlite and hook it onto my monopod. I'll post my current setup later.


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clarence
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Sep 11, 2012 06:04 |  #19

Station15 wrote in post #14975716 (external link)
What ISO are these shot at?

Those were 3200 with the 1D3. On the 5D3 I use anywhere between 3200, 4000, 5000, or 6400.

I use M and set the SS to 1/800" - 1/1000".

The ISO is less important because I use ETTL mose on the speedlites. As the ambient background light level decreases across the field (e.g. darker at the endzones than at midfield, and generally at the end of the game than the beginning of the game), it doesn't matter if the background is underexposed, ETTL maintains sufficient lighting on the subject (as long as the subject is close enough to sufficiently fill the frame).


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burnet44
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Sep 11, 2012 08:48 |  #20

how do you set the sync so high
my 40D only goes to 1/250 ?


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clarence
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Sep 11, 2012 09:17 |  #21

PW hypersync (optimized HSS)


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burnet44
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Sep 11, 2012 10:44 |  #22

Can I do that with a 40D?

prob not?


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bobbyz
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Sep 11, 2012 11:14 |  #23

burnet44 wrote in post #14976632 (external link)
Can I do that with a 40D?

prob not?

It is mini/flex not the camera. You don't even need flex on rx side unless doing HSS. Plus II on Rx side with mini or flex on Tx side works. If using HSS like Clarence then you need flex on the rx side also.


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AZAlphaDog
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Sep 11, 2012 11:27 |  #24

clarence wrote in post #14975803 (external link)
Those were 3200 with the 1D3. On the 5D3 I use anywhere between 3200, 4000, 5000, or 6400.

With the ISO set that high, can you even get these passed in MaxPreps? or are you not submitting them to MaxPreps and therefore don't care?

burnet44 wrote in post #14976167 (external link)
how do you set the sync so high
my 40D only goes to 1/250 ?

burnet44 wrote in post #14976632 (external link)
Can I do that with a 40D?

prob not?

I thought you said you couldn't use flash, so why do you care what equipment or settings?

Honestly, shooting flashed football is entirely different from shooting ambient football (I do both) the techniques for following the game and the timing and how you capture your images takes 2 different perspectives, or a different frame-of-mind, at least in my opinion.

I think it's much easier to learn to shoot ambient football than it is to learn to shoot flashed football, and for burnet44 it might be better to get real, real good at shooting ambient football before even thinking about attempting flashed football.


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MJPhotos24
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Sep 11, 2012 12:22 |  #25

AZAlphaDog wrote in post #14976837 (external link)
With the ISO set that high, can you even get these passed in MaxPreps? or are you not submitting them to MaxPreps and therefore don't care

I think nowadays you can get away with higher ISO as they care more about consistent colors and noise levels, shooting ambient have sent in some games at higher ISO depending on the field without a problem, and flash at higher ISO would help with some of that noise.

Honestly, shooting flashed football is entirely different from shooting ambient football (I do both) the techniques for following the game and the timing and how you capture your images takes 2 different perspectives, or a different frame-of-mind, at least in my opinion.

Definitely two different mind sets!


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burnet44
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Sep 11, 2012 12:27 |  #26

Im just trying to learn dude
whats the ss in the qb pic of number 5 above?

not fast enough to stop action?

If I read right was it 800-1000?

wouldnt you want a ss to stop action?
Im just looking to learn


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Sep 11, 2012 13:03 |  #27

burnet44 wrote in post #14977070 (external link)
Im just trying to learn dude
whats the ss in the qb pic of number 5 above?

not fast enough to stop action?

If I read right was it 800-1000?

wouldnt you want a ss to stop action?
Im just looking to learn

Nothing wrong with learning.

You must learn to crawl before you can learn to walk or run.

The shutter speed was 1/200 of a second, (max sync speed on a Canon 5D mk III btw) the motion blur is caused by having my ISO too high at 640, I should have had it at 400.

Unless you understand the concepts of mixing ambient and flash, flash duration and how they relate to flash power and the "speed" of the flash pulse most of these things will just go way, way over your head.

And, none of this information will make you a better football shooter as far as timing the action, following the game, knowing where to position yourself during the game, what to watch for, how to lock focus, how to compose your images, and how to expose your images correctly under different lighting conditions.

I don't believe you will learn any of these things by reading some internet forum posts [period] Go out and shoot daylight football, shoot night time football without a flash, study the game, get comfortable making useful images during the game, learn what shutter speeds are needed to stop action, how low you can go, you need to get to a point where you don't need to ask what the settings are because you know what the settings NEED to be to get the results you are looking for.

When you have done that AND you have enough experience under your belt your specific questions about settings for flashed football will make a lot more sense to you.

For now, focus on composing good football images.

One step at a time, one step at a time.

Also, I am NOT the greatest football photographer of all time, in fact I am really only an average photographer who continues to learn more about the game and how to photograph it every time I go to a game and take pictures.

The key thing is practice, practice and more practice.


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Sep 11, 2012 13:28 |  #28

AZAlphaDog wrote in post #14977219 (external link)
Nothing wrong with learning.

You must learn to crawl before you can learn to walk or run.

The shutter speed was 1/200 of a second, (max sync speed on a Canon 5D mk III btw) the motion blur is caused by having my ISO too high at 640, I should have had it at 400.

Unless you understand the concepts of mixing ambient and flash, flash duration and how they relate to flash power and the "speed" of the flash pulse most of these things will just go way, way over your head.

And, none of this information will make you a better football shooter as far as timing the action, following the game, knowing where to position yourself during the game, what to watch for, how to lock focus, how to compose your images, and how to expose your images correctly under different lighting conditions.

I don't believe you will learn any of these things by reading some internet forum posts [period] Go out and shoot daylight football, shoot night time football without a flash, study the game, get comfortable making useful images during the game, learn what shutter speeds are needed to stop action, how low you can go, you need to get to a point where you don't need to ask what the settings are because you know what the settings NEED to be to get the results you are looking for.

When you have done that AND you have enough experience under your belt your specific questions about settings for flashed football will make a lot more sense to you.

For now, focus on composing good football images.

One step at a time, one step at a time.

Also, I am NOT the greatest football photographer of all time, in fact I am really only an average photographer who continues to learn more about the game and how to photograph it every time I go to a game and take pictures.

The key thing is practice, practice and more practice.

I think no matter what you're doing out there, you can always learn something.

As for using strobes, it's not that difficult to understand and to say that it would go over his head is a little presumptuous. The duration of the flash pulse is effectively your SS speed, that's the main gist of it. Like anything else, you have to dial it in. No situation is exactly the same. The biggest learning curve IMO is that you can't rapid fire. Anticipation and timing are bigger factors here.


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Sep 11, 2012 14:53 |  #29

Hmm, your strobes are 550 EX's? I guess you don't need external battery packs since you're using 3 strobes in hyper-sync, correct?


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Sep 11, 2012 16:37 as a reply to  @ jdnan's post |  #30

burnet44 wrote in post #14977843 (external link)
yeah a lot is over my head
great shots of NAU and Illinois
but those guys play in big stadiums with great lights

as dumb as I am Id say those 2 shots were not at 1/200
but you know a lot more than me

but as well as you guys know photos
I know football like you guys know photos

I can tell wha a guard will pull
cover 1 vs cover 3
I can just about call plays at times


Now that the freeking pissing contest is over

post stuff that helps people

Its like going to a coaching clinic
Ive been to more coaching clinics than prob most of you have been to photo conventions
Ive heard great HS coaches College coaches and Pro coaches
there is a lot of stuff hs coaches cant do like the Pro's do
but its nice to learn what they do so we can learn

I read this board a lot and a lot of stuff yes goes over my head

Like this one

Originally Posted by burnet44
Can I do that with a 40D?

prob not?

It is mini/flex not the camera. You don't even need flex on rx side unless doing HSS. Plus II on Rx side with mini or flex on Tx side works. If using HSS like Clarence then you need flex on the rx side also.


I really have no clue what any of that is or even how it answers my question

Thats why I said put the flash under the lens as opposed to over it
Like the guys tripod above

Any way this isnt a pissing contest

I know you guys are better than me
which doesnt account for much since Im terrible

and if you think the testrosterone is bad here
LOL
get around football coaches

Ill keep reading stuff
even if it goes over my head

thanks to all for posting
it takes your time and trouble

Ill keep reading and shooting
I just wish it was more enjoyable

I actually had real fun at 2 games last week
finally got a decent setting 2 nights in a row
1/1000 2.8 iso 1000
so I didnt sppend all my time trying to find a decent one

I got to enjoy the game instead of spending all my time fing with the camera
Its easier to call plays when your not fing with the camera

sorry for the rant

Move along people
nothing to see here

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elrey,

I don't think it's being presumptuous to think a lot of this stuff will be over burnet44's head when he admits it's over his head, and in point of fact managed to post a response to my information in an entirely different thread.

Just the fact that his response had to be copied and pasted from another thread might give you some indication of the level of confusion going on here.

burnet44,

The first two images posted are flashed football (No. 5 quarterback passing, and No. 42 carrying the ball) the second two images are ambient football, shot a 2500 ISO without a flash, and therefor the shutter speeds are 1/1000 of a second because WITHOUT a flash the shutter speed DOES stop the action.

It is clear that you don't understand the concept that for flashed football your shutter speed doesn't stop the action, the flash does. This is what elrey said and the difficult concept that many, many people have a hard time with, which is not uncommon as most learning photographers find this somewhat counter-intuitive to what they have always been taught and that is the concept that the shutter speed is what stops the action.

Don't feel bad if this confuses you, it confused me in the beginning too, it takes some experimentation with a flash and practice to really get a grasp on the whole thing.

Now if you know football so well (can anticipate plays and know where the players are going to be before they even get there) Well you are way ahead of some of us as far as knowing the game of football and I don't understand why you aren't getting FANTASTIC shots from any game you attend.

Knowing the game of football is half the battle, armed with that knowledge you could make great images with a cell-phone camera.

Set your camera in Manual exposure mode, set your shutter speed at 1/1000 of a second, your lens at f2.8, with your ISO on Auto and the focus to (AI Servo focus) and fire away. Assuming you know the game as well as you say you do, you will get some reasonably good images (with the technology available in a 40D there is no reason your images shouldn't be suitable to post here)

So, show us what you get.


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So how do yo do it? (Strobed Football)
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