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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 13 Sep 2012 (Thursday) 10:47
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HSS vs Watt Seconds

 
Hypnotizedd
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Sep 13, 2012 11:59 as a reply to  @ post 14986079 |  #16

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Scatterbrained
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Sep 13, 2012 12:59 |  #17

Stickman wrote in post #14985959 (external link)
Easy way to shoot wide open...

Hypnotizedd wrote in post #14986036 (external link)
no it isnt, get a variable ND filter

Thomas Campbell wrote in post #14986063 (external link)
bw!

+2

I use a Vari-N-Trio personally. This way I know exactly what I'm dealing with in terms of light. I've tried the hypersync with my alien bees, and while it works, it's very limited. ND filters are much easier as they give you more control. Besides, are Vari-ND isn't too much money. Or you could get a used B1600, or maybe an Einstein.


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dmward
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Sep 13, 2012 13:50 |  #18

dedsen wrote in post #14986079 (external link)
They are both methods of trying to get a faster shutter speed than normal camera sync allows. but totally different methods.
HSS sync pulses the flash over a period of time to try to cover the longer shutter speed. It is a proprietary function of some hot shoe flashes.
Hypersync tries to time the shutter opening earlier and staying open longer to take advantage of the start and tail burns of the strobe flash tube.

I do not think chicken bones will work. It might confuse some people though if that is your plan. :)

Dale, you got it kinda' right.

HSS uses pulsing flashes to maintain a constant flash output while the shutter curtain slit traverses the sensor plane. The pulsing starts before the first curtain starts to move and continues for a bit after the second curtain closes. The main reason there is a significant reduction in light intensity because of the pulsing. It means that the capacitor has to feed the flash tube and be replenished sufficiently to maintain the pulsing.

Hyper Sync is a hack that takes advantage of the early flash trigger pulse to fire the monolight before the first curtain opens. Thus keeping part of the sensor from being over exposed. The intent is to use the tail of the flash after the peak since the tail is a diminishing power curve, there is a graduated exposure from the flash tail. Stronger light in early part of slit travel and less light at the end.

I've experimented with Hyper Sync (check my tutorial website) and found that the Lightroom Gradient tool will easily adjust the exposure. It takes between a 1/3 and 1/2 stop exposure on the tool.

Since voltage regulated monolights have longer, flatter tails as power is reduced, best results are achieved when the power setting can be reduced below 1/2 power.


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dmward
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Sep 13, 2012 14:20 |  #19

Scatterbrained wrote in post #14986321 (external link)
+2

I use a Vari-N-Trio personally. This way I know exactly what I'm dealing with in terms of light. I've tried the hypersync with my alien bees, and while it works, it's very limited. ND filters are much easier as they give you more control. Besides, are Vari-ND isn't too much money. Or you could get a used B1600, or maybe an Einstein.

If one is buying a monolight with Hyper Sync in mind the Einstein is a poor choice.
Because it uses IGBT circuit to control power, as do most speedlites, it does not have a tail on its light output when power is reduced below 1:1. And, its tail at full power is relatively short compared to monolights with voltage control for power.


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Scatterbrained
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Sep 13, 2012 18:36 |  #20

dmward wrote in post #14986729 (external link)
If one is buying a monolight with Hyper Sync in mind the Einstein is a poor choice.
Because it uses IGBT circuit to control power, as do most speedlites, it does not have a tail on its light output when power is reduced below 1:1. And, its tail at full power is relatively short compared to monolights with voltage control for power.

I wasn't recommending buying it with hypersync in mind, but buying it to have better control of the light in general, as well as more light overall. ;)


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dmward
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Sep 13, 2012 23:47 |  #21

Scatterbrained wrote in post #14987674 (external link)
I wasn't recommending buying it with hypersync in mind, but buying it to have better control of the light in general, as well as more light overall. ;)

For those reasons its a great light. I have 4. :-)


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Stickman
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Sep 13, 2012 23:51 |  #22

SkipD wrote in post #14986065 (external link)
HSS and "hypersync" are radically different in how they operate and are definitely not interchangeable terms.


Certainly, and I apologize to anyone whose feelings I hurt, or anyone I mislead who now thinks they can achieve the same end result just because they can.


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Stickman
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Sep 13, 2012 23:52 |  #23

Hypnotizedd wrote in post #14986036 (external link)
no it isnt, get a variable ND filter

Go get more lights.


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gonzogolf
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Sep 14, 2012 00:06 |  #24

Stickman wrote in post #14988855 (external link)
Certainly, and I apologize to anyone whose feelings I hurt, or anyone I mislead who now thinks they can achieve the same end result just because they can.

Please find the HSS button on a monolight, or perhaps enlighten us on how to achieve hypersync with a hotshoe flash with no tail burn. Both systems get you higher shutter speeds, but the results are hardly the same as you lose so much power using HSS.




  
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dmward
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Sep 14, 2012 13:04 |  #25

gonzogolf wrote in post #14988895 (external link)
Please find the HSS button on a monolight, or perhaps enlighten us on how to achieve hypersync with a hotshoe flash with no tail burn. Both systems get you higher shutter speeds, but the results are hardly the same as you lose so much power using HSS.

You are also giving away a lot of the lighting power from the monolight by having it fire before the shutter curtain is open. Both are serious compromises.


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Scatterbrained
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Sep 14, 2012 13:12 |  #26

dmward wrote in post #14991107 (external link)
You are also giving away a lot of the lighting power from the monolight by having it fire before the shutter curtain is open. Both are serious compromises.

Not to mention the fact that you can't accurately meter it, making it a bit of a guessing game. Which is why I recommended earlier that the OP just buy another light.


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Wilt
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Sep 15, 2012 10:45 |  #27

Not sure why the recommendations for ND filter...a ND filter does NOT CHANGE the relative intensity of the flash vs. the ambient...it filters and reduces the light from both sources uniformly if the ND is on the lens!!!

The solution for altering the relative balance of flash vs. ambient is only to make the flash more powerful (or less powerful). ND on the flash itself make the flash less powerful compared to ambient, but that isn't the issue of this thread. So you either need to move the flash closer, or use a more powerful flash unit, or add a second flash unit very close to the first one.

Hypersync triggers (not HSS) can be a partial solution because they can permit a slightly faster shutter speed while still synching to a full power flash (without the loss of power caused by HSS above X-sync speed). So the ambient is reduced in intensity while leaving the flash power alone.


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Sep 15, 2012 11:03 |  #28

Wilt wrote in post #14994802 (external link)
Not sure why the recommendations for ND filter...a ND filter does NOT CHANGE the relative intensity of the flash vs. the ambient...it filters and reduces the light from both sources uniformly if the ND is on the lens!!!

The solution for altering the relative balance of flash vs. ambient is only to make the flash more powerful (or less powerful). ND on the flash itself make the flash less powerful compared to ambient, but that isn't the issue of this thread. So you either need to move the flash closer, or use a more powerful flash unit, or add a second flash unit very close to the first one.

Hypersync triggers (not HSS) can be a partial solution because they can permit a slightly faster shutter speed while still synching to a full power flash (without the loss of power caused by HSS above X-sync speed). So the ambient is reduced in intensity while leaving the flash power alone.

You can use an ND filter to reduce the ambient and then up the strobe power to compensate. You have control of the strobe output, not the sun's output. ;) It's as simple as setting the exposure on the camera to get the background where you want it, and then metering the flash for that setting and adding a bit to compensate for the ND filter. Having stronger lights and ND filters gives you more flexibility in how you can present the sky (making a noon day look like evening for example) relative to the subject as well as giving you more aperture options.


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Wilt
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Sep 15, 2012 11:29 |  #29

Scatterbrained wrote:
You can use an ND filter to reduce the ambient and then up the strobe power to compensate.

OK Scatterbrained...pleas​e explain to me this...

  • Ambient light meters ISO 100 1/100 f/16 (bright sunlight)
  • Flash output (580EX) maxed at at GN130 for 50mm 'normal' lens coverage angle, allowing f/11 at 12' distance to subject

...flash intensity is -1EV compared to ambient.

I put a -2EV ND filter on my lens. So effectively I can set 1/100 f/8 on the lens (because the -2EV ND filter drops the ambient intensity). But the flash intensity captured by the lens is ALSO REDUCED by -2EV ND filter on the lens. So just how does the flash intensity get 'increased' by 2EV relative to ambient intensity under your scenario, so that the flash ends up at 1EV brighter than the ambient light? The flash power was already maxed out when we started!

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Scatterbrained
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Sep 15, 2012 11:39 |  #30

Wilt wrote in post #14994958 (external link)
OK Scatterbrained...pleas​e explain to me this...
  • Ambient light meters ISO 100 1/100 f/16 (bright sunlight)
  • Flash output (580EX) maxed at at GN130 for 50mm 'normal' lens coverage angle, allowing f/11 at 12' distance to subject

...flash intensity is -1EV compared to ambient.

I put a -2EV ND filter on my lens. So effectively I can set 1/100 f/8 on the lens (because the -2EV ND filter drops the ambient intensity). But the flash intensity captured by the lens is ALSO REDUCED by -2EV ND filter on the lens. So just how does the flash intensity get 'increased' by 2EV relative to ambient intensity under your scenario, so that the flash ends up at 1EV brighter than the ambient light? The flash power was already maxed out when we started!

By using a more powerful flash. Put the speedlights away Wilt. ;)


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