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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 16 Sep 2012 (Sunday) 20:48
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Canon eos 6d offically announced

 
hyogen
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Sep 17, 2012 17:22 |  #571

theflyingkiwi wrote in post #15005365 (external link)
This time next year :D

so both will get refreshes, then? 70D and 7D mark II (I guess 7d will remain APS-C).


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Sep 17, 2012 17:25 |  #572

Charlie wrote in post #15005341 (external link)
what's unfounded about them? canon has been using non cross points for many years, why would assumptions be unfounded?

For starters, if this camera can focus in -3ev lighting then it is clearly not using the same old AF points, cross type or not.

Moreover, there's more to an AF system than just the number and type of points listed on the spec sheet.


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Yohan ­ Pamudji
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Sep 17, 2012 17:25 |  #573

JeffreyG wrote in post #15005267 (external link)
Were you on vacation or something? The moaning about how the D800 absolutely killed the 5D3 with it's extra pixels and DR was simply endless. The landscape shooters who prioritize such things simply could not grasp that the 5D3 could present a better feature set to some people.

No, I was all up in that initial 5DIII thread :) I saw a lot of complaining from a very small group of people with a very particular photography focus of landscapes, although a few portrait photogs also complained here and elsewhere about the still-not-fixed shadow pattern noise. I'm seeing a more widespread disapproval with the 6D. That's just my take on it though from less than 24 hours of reactions. The forum might settle down after a day or two--who knows.

No, it seems pretty normal to me.

My take is that Canon almost released a great product at a great point. If all 11 of the AF points were as good as the center, this camera would be a wonderful deal. With shades of what I personally hated about the 5D / 5D2 (the AF outer points) coming back, I'm personally not interested.

Then again, I have a 5D3.

"Almost" a great product at a great price point. I said as much earlier when I said that if they had swapped out Wifi and GPS for the 7D AF they would have had an attractive product. I'm with you--the non-cross-type outer AF points kill it for me. I recognize that just as with the 5DII there are many who aren't bothered by that, and for them the 6D might be a decent option.

For me this is "almost" great in the same way that if I throw a potentially game-winning pass at the end of a football game I either succeeded and won or failed and lost even if I almost connected with the pass. In other words "almost" equates to failure. Good AF is that important to me. I hope that makes sense because from your post I think you feel the same way.

I do think people should not discount the GPS and Wifi as 'gimmicks'. The Wifi allows your smart phone to replace the $600 Canon wireless remote trigger, with Live View!

And GPS is important to certain people. Not me, but I don't dismiss features as 'gimmicks' just because I'm not the intended target.

I called them gimmicks but I also said they were useful. I'm not dismissing them entirely by calling them gimmicks. I use the term to illustrate that they've forsaken the bread-and-butter (AF) for things that are much more peripheral and feature-checklist-y. Serious question: how many people do you think would benefit from Wifi and/or GPS vs. better AF? In my mind the former are nice to have while the latter is a fundamental function of a modern camera. Do you think I'm in the minority in this view?




  
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Sep 17, 2012 17:26 |  #574

hyogen wrote in post #15005361 (external link)
in light of this new offering from Canon, is it easier to speculate if 60D and 7D will have new versions that'll come out?

If I were a betting man I'd guess a new 7D and 60D replacement will be a single camera with a crop sensor in a smaller body like the 6D with an either all poly body or just on the top plate like the 6D, and no MA or joystick. That way, everyone will be uniformly unhappy. :)


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Yohan ­ Pamudji
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Sep 17, 2012 17:28 |  #575

krb wrote in post #15005386 (external link)
For starters, if this camera can focus in -3ev lighting then it is clearly not using the same old AF points, cross type or not.

Moreover, there's more to an AF system than just the number and type of points listed on the spec sheet.

Sure, but there's also such a thing as track record and prior performance. There's nothing to indicate that the outer AF points on the 6D will be great based on previous cameras. Of course we'll have to wait and see, but precedent is not in its favor so skepticism is a reasonable starting point.




  
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Sep 17, 2012 17:29 |  #576

Did anyone notice in the behind the scenes footage of: "DEEP GREEN" (Canon's Sample Short) that the 6D was outputting video without the Overlay? It was a clean shot on the LCD screen they were using.


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kevindar
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Sep 17, 2012 17:33 |  #577

Jeff, the primary disappointment on 5d3, from landscape shooters, and others, was the dynamic range, (and may be the price). the price seems to be correcting itself. as time went on, and I and others appreciated how truly good the autofocus is, I think people are a little happier. I think at 2800 price point, 5d3 is the best camera value that Canon has made.
I do agree that the wifi in 6D may prove to be very useful with applications from smart phone, if it allows also better bracketing, intervelometer function, etc. GPS? not sure how useful that is.
single cross point autofocus is pretty pathetic though, and I honestly think canon, more than anything else, needs to make their sensor a priority. Canon needs to offer more in a camera than the competitor due to its inferior sensor, and its the opposite way around right now.

JeffreyG wrote in post #15005267 (external link)
Were you on vacation or something? The moaning about how the D800 absolutely killed the 5D3 with it's extra pixels and DR was simply endless. The landscape shooters who prioritize such things simply could not grasp that the 5D3 could present a better feature set to some people.



No, it seems pretty normal to me.

My take is that Canon almost released a great product at a great point. If all 11 of the AF points were as good as the center, this camera would be a wonderful deal. With shades of what I personally hated about the 5D / 5D2 (the AF outer points) coming back, I'm personally not interested.

Then again, I have a 5D3.

I do think people should not discount the GPS and Wifi as 'gimmicks'. The Wifi allows your smart phone to replace the $600 Canon wireless remote trigger, with Live View!

And GPS is important to certain people. Not me, but I don't dismiss features as 'gimmicks' just because I'm not the intended target.


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krb
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Sep 17, 2012 17:34 |  #578

Yohan Pamudji wrote in post #15005404 (external link)
Sure, but there's also such a thing as track record and prior performance. There's nothing to indicate that the outer AF points on the 6D will be great based on previous cameras. Of course we'll have to wait and see, but precedent is not in its favor so skepticism is a reasonable starting point.

Skepticism is reasonable on any and all products and I have already said that on paper what they are offering is not what I would have hoped for. But most of what I'm seeing in this thread is not skepticism.


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Charlie
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Sep 17, 2012 17:38 |  #579

cross type or not, the 5D2 is good enough for me, but when the light levels dip and the outer points stop working, I have to switch to center point... that's annoying. If the 6D resolves that issue, then it's a winner regardless of cross types or not.


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Sep 17, 2012 17:39 |  #580

After seeing the supposed specs of the 6D, my next step up from a 7d will be a 1DS or better. Thanks Canon for making my decision easy.


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mlech
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Sep 17, 2012 17:44 as a reply to  @ post 15000827 |  #581

This camera is my dream come true , this is exactly what Ive been waiting for! Will be upgrading from my T3i to this. Will also need a new lens for the full frame.


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Sep 17, 2012 17:46 |  #582

5Dc user here. Don't want to upgrade to MKII or something more advanced from current FF models.
Just don't have money and needs for it right now.
6D - I like it. If it is small, weather sealed body -perfect. Left 5Dc at home for this week trip to Vancouver. Too big for travel. Too loud shutter for candids.


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Sep 17, 2012 17:47 |  #583

Yohan Pamudji wrote in post #15005389 (external link)
Serious question: how many people do you think would benefit from Wifi and/or GPS vs. better AF? In my mind the former are nice to have while the latter is a fundamental function of a modern camera. Do you think I'm in the minority in this view?

I think most people prioritize AF performance.

All electronics makers do this (withholding features on lower cost models) but Canon seems to always do it in a little more ham-handed manner than most. I was really frustrated with Canon at the time of the 5D2 launch because they were still using AF as a strong model differntiator while Nikon had started slapping their top AF module into just about everything.

The 5D3 was a welcome change on this front, the 6D appears to be back to the same old thing.

I will sound one note of caution. The center point sounds like it was improved. Everyone sees that the outer points are not cross and have reached the conclusion that they will suck as bad as the outer points of the 5D / 5D2. That may or may not be true.


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Sep 17, 2012 17:47 |  #584

not at all what i was expecting or hoping for ....have to see if i can swing it to switch over to the Nikon d600 ...it may not work out as i have to much invested in lens equipt...lets see




  
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Sep 17, 2012 17:48 |  #585

lonescout wrote in post #15005147 (external link)
I think you are misunderstanding what these companies are about. They need to give the consumer as little as possible and charge as much as they can get. If the consumer is unhappy with the spec of their potential purchase then there's a good chance they'll find the extra cash to move up a level.

Canon have only increased the number of levels available. It appears that that move just increases the number of people that will be unhappy with whatever products there are. Too expensive/can't afford or not enough spec for what I can afford.

And this is where the conclusion of the DPReview preview comes into play.

Overall, though, it's difficult to shake the feeling that the EOS 6D simply lacks the 'wow' factor of its main rival. Whereas Nikon seems to have taken the approach of taking away as little as possible from D800 when creating the D600, Canon appears almost to have gone the other way, removing as much as it thinks it can get away with at the price. The result is the kind of conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark. It's still bound to be a very good camera, of course; just perhaps not quite as good as it could be.

I think the methodology you describe is more workable when you're the dominant competitor in the market. Whether Canon is or not is debatable, but regardless the practice by its nature does not tend to be particularly competitive.

Nikon on the other hand has taken the aggressive stance of trickling some their top tier technology down to entry level models. We've seen this strategy before, back when Canon seemingly cannibalized their high tier 7D sensor and plunked it in the entry level T2i. It was an aggressive move to secure greater footing in the increasingly competitive entry level DSLR market, and I think it paid off. An entry-level full frame camera probably isn't as lucrative a market as first time DSLR buyers, but Nikon appears to want it more.


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Canon eos 6d offically announced
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