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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 19 Sep 2012 (Wednesday) 10:40
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Sideline access for HS football; My unsual encounter with HS Principal

 
PaulMedik
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Sep 19, 2012 22:02 as a reply to  @ post 15016041 |  #16

tj3775 wrote in post #15014635 (external link)
.......... I'm curious though...why are you giving them 8x10 for free? If I was the contracted photographer..I'd be pissed too..I mean..thats 40*whatever they charge out of his pocket. Wouldnt make me a happy camper either.

.

tj3775,

I'm giving them the pics for free because they are all friends of my son and I've watched all of them grow up playing sports together. I have the paper, ink, and printer so the actual cost to me is nothing but time; and I'll enjoy it. The majority of the kids also simply could not afford to spend money on a picture; mines here in WV are laying off in record numbers due to the current administrations energy policies.


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12Rock
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Sep 19, 2012 22:13 |  #17

"when the High School Principal (Not middle school, but they are combined), approached me and asked who I was with. I laughed and wondered why he would ask since I'd been shooting pics and video for years at the field and at basketball games." Sounds Like you feel everyone should know who you are ...guess not everyone does ...And he is right for stepping up to you , that's part of his job ...Why make it hard on the guy engage him and explain who and why you are there , it's that simple ... You are doing nice things for folks ..that does not make you more important then any other parent involved.......




  
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PaulMedik
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Sep 19, 2012 22:23 |  #18

MJPhotos24 wrote in post #15016041 (external link)
.........

You bragged about laughing at him when he asked who you are, this would immediately put you at a major disadvantage, want to be treated with respect, show some first. Seriously, why would they let you on the sidelines, because your kid plays and you have a camera, just like the 300 other kids parents at the school who say the same thing? That's all we need on the sidelines, speaking as a coach here, is all the parents!!

Also as a coach or AD could care less about what you give away, I'm sure the semipro who's selling his images to pay bills is a huge fan of you giving it all away so he can't make a sale, but that's his own problem for covering a school with someone undercutting him. Simple fact remains you're not a news outlet that was approved, you probably got the wrong insurance where it doesn't cover you, your gear and everyone you come into contact with, you come off in this post as someone that feels entitled to be on the sidelines because you're a parent with camera, what world do you live in?

My favorite is you're BOASTING about how right you are and how wrong they are, that you'll get your way no matter what, all while on a public board using your real name that anyone can take a look around for less than one minute, find the school you're talking about and email it all the principal without even blinking.

MJPhotos,

I did not 'brag' about laughing; I simply stated what my reaction was. It honestly took me by surprise because it was like he had no clue who I was. Perhaps he didn't?

I have not 'boasted' about how I'm right and their is no 'they'. The only person involved is myself and the school Principal. Everyone else I've spoken to within the school system agrees that it was an odd conversation.

When I state that I will get on the sidelines, my intention is to meet all the requirements he mentioned; Press Pass, liability insurance, and permission from the County school board. By what definition would that be 'boasting?' Meeting the specified terms isn't a boast, it is if anything a concession.

I live in a world that awards honesty and hard work. I have never taken a handout or 'entitlement' of any kind nor will I. You can save that sermon because I don't attend your church.

I do feel that I should be allowed to access the sidelines to get pictures of my son's team playing football. 'Pros' access the sidelines to make money either for themselves or for whatever publication they are shooting for.

I shoot pictures for my enjoyment and so that the kids will have an image to remind them of what they did and how they did it. I do my best to prepare in advance and learn better technique. I have more to learn than most, but by the same token, I can see improvement in my pictures over time and I am confident that I will continue to improve.

You took issue with your perception of what transpired between the principlal and myself. Your preception of what happened simply means that I did not accurately describe the interaction. There was a spectator setting on the steps behind me. After the Principal walked away and I stood up to leave, the man behind me said 'that was just too weird.' 'Why did he do that?' I didn't have an answer then and still don't. In my experience, most actions of any kind have a motivating factor. I have no clue what motivated this encounter. Perhaps you are right and I displayed a lack of respect. If so, I certainly didn't have any lack of respect at that time. Quite frankly I've lost quite a bit of respect, but hopefully it will be restored.

Thank you for your feedback and suggestions. Perhaps I should stop by the school and apologise if I have offended him? Again, whatever it takes, whatever hoops I need to jump thru, I will be there.


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PaulMedik
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Sep 19, 2012 22:29 |  #19

12Rock wrote in post #15017138 (external link)
"when the High School Principal (Not middle school, but they are combined), approached me and asked who I was with. I laughed and wondered why he would ask since I'd been shooting pics and video for years at the field and at basketball games." Sounds Like you feel everyone should know who you are ...guess not everyone does ...And he is right for stepping up to you , that's part of his job ...Why make it hard on the guy engage him and explain who and why you are there , it's that simple ... You are doing nice things for folks ..that does not make you more important then any other parent involved.......

12Rock,

LOL, you know it does sound like I assume everyone knows me, but really I always assume that nobody knows me. In this case, I assumed he knew me because I had met him in his office on more than one occasion, but had never had a problem with him. Each time was cordial.

I have dozens of pictures of him posing with my middle son's team when they won the county championship and have those pics online. I have posted dozens of videos of the football and basketball games. I had a new shirt that the school sold that week to benefit the athletic department. I simply assumed he actually knew me and knew who I was with. It was just an odd question. He had also walked by me all three previous weeks and never said a word.

I do plan to speak with him after reading comments in this thread. Perhaps he simply didn't recognise me? Perhaps he just wanted me to ask permission? Regardless of his motivation, like I said I will jump thru whatever hoop's required.

Thank you for your feedback; it really is priceless!


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ajaffe
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Sep 20, 2012 01:41 |  #20

bigVinnie wrote in post #15015770 (external link)
ajaffe, CIF rules state that photos are for editorial use only and not commercial. How does that work with you selling prints on your website?

It means nothing, prints are considered editorial. On that note though I do not sell high school photos as that would be unethical. I am there to shoot for a publication, not for myself.


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mobei
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Sep 20, 2012 13:18 |  #21

The fact is your probably a "johnny come lately". The school probably has made an agreement with the other guy. Part of that arrangement is he's the only one allowed on the field. He may be giving a percentage of sales back to the school. That percent may make your free 8x10's look paltry. If he's already made an agreement he needs to stand by it.
Your acting unethical by trying to circumvent him. Why? You can not control your shutter finger? You have made promises that you now can't keep when you should have done your homework first? If you wanted to shoot the games so bad you should have bid the job or got permission before the season started. Your no different from the tens of thousands of parents that wish they could shoot from the sidelines however for some reason you can't take no for an answer. I've heard the I've shot the kids forever approach time and time again. Things change at the High School level. It becomes a revenue source. The money I earn for them is used to buy the gatorade on the sidelines and the officials lunches. The fences are erected to keep the parents off the field unless they are there in a official capacity.
I also see you are selling the photos on your site. Your digging yourself in a hole really fast. Get a handle on your addiction.




  
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photoguy6405
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Sep 20, 2012 13:34 |  #22

It is very possible that the Principal merely made up the restrictions because it is less hassle for him. People give less hassle over "policy" (they usually have no clue whether it really exists or not) than they do over a Principal saying "because I said so".


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Thomas ­ Campbell
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Sep 20, 2012 13:34 as a reply to  @ post 15016127 |  #23

My 'Press Pass' is from the National Press Photographer's Association.

That isn't a press pass. A press pass would come from someone with authority over the field.

I post my pictures on FaceBook and upload to Fotki for anyone that wants full size pics. I am not a professional photographer and do not charge for pics. I'll be making 8x10 pics of all the players on the HS team (40+ players) for free and the school will present them with frames at the end of season dinner. This is the same HS the principal works for.

If there is a pro there that sells, have some respect for the man that is busting his ass to try to feed his family and don't give everything away to everyone who wants it. Not a very nice thing to do to a fellow photographer.

I have the paper, ink, and printer so the actual cost to me is nothing but time; and I'll enjoy it.

Did you steal the paper, ink and printer? Did someone else steal it for you? It had to cost SOMETHING to someone, right?

The majority of the kids also simply could not afford to spend money on a picture;

Bull****. I bet they aren't walking barefoot to school. Playing football probably wasn't free.

I do feel that I should be allowed to access the sidelines to get pictures of my son's team playing football.

Why, just because your kid plays? Well, there might be 160 kids out there. Want to let all 320 parents on the sideline so they can take iPhone pics? Wait, some have step parents, too, so lets throw 400 parents on the sidelines so they can get a pic of their kid. They are entitled! It is their kid!


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moose10101
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Sep 20, 2012 14:47 |  #24

Thomas Campbell wrote in post #15019545 (external link)
Bull****. I bet they aren't walking barefoot to school. Playing football probably wasn't free.

Did you intend for that comment to sound as elitist as it does? Or do you really want some players to pass on necessities in order to buy a photo? FYI, lots of school districts cover the sports fees for families who can't afford them.

PaulMedik wrote in post #15017170 (external link)
I do feel that I should be allowed to access the sidelines to get pictures of my son's team playing football.

With an agreement, in writing, from the AD or principal, I would agree with you, especially since you're providing prints for the team. Being given access just because your son is on the team is not a reasonable expectation.




  
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PaulMedik
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Sep 20, 2012 15:08 |  #25

mobei wrote in post #15019486 (external link)
The fact is your probably a "johnny come lately". The school probably has made an agreement with the other guy. Part of that arrangement is he's the only one allowed on the field. He may be giving a percentage of sales back to the school. That percent may make your free 8x10's look paltry. If he's already made an agreement he needs to stand by it.
Your acting unethical by trying to circumvent him. Why? You can not control your shutter finger? You have made promises that you now can't keep when you should have done your homework first? If you wanted to shoot the games so bad you should have bid the job or got permission before the season started. Your no different from the tens of thousands of parents that wish they could shoot from the sidelines however for some reason you can't take no for an answer. I've heard the I've shot the kids forever approach time and time again. Things change at the High School level. It becomes a revenue source. The money I earn for them is used to buy the gatorade on the sidelines and the officials lunches. The fences are erected to keep the parents off the field unless they are there in a official capacity.
I also see you are selling the photos on your site. Your digging yourself in a hole really fast. Get a handle on your addiction.

mobei,

Perhpas you should reread my posts and research a little.

The game was MIDDLE SCHOOL, not High School.

I am selling photos on my site? Amusing; I have no site and I am NOT selling photos. I store photos online @ Webshots and @ Fotki; they sell prints; Prints that I do NOT get any percentage of. Downloading full size is FREE.


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PaulMedik
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Sep 20, 2012 15:09 |  #26

Thomas Campbell wrote in post #15019545 (external link)
That isn't a press pass. A press pass would come from someone with authority over the field.

If there is a pro there that sells, have some respect for the man that is busting his ass to try to feed his family and don't give everything away to everyone who wants it. Not a very nice thing to do to a fellow photographer.

Did you steal the paper, ink and printer? Did someone else steal it for you? It had to cost SOMETHING to someone, right?

Bull****. I bet they aren't walking barefoot to school. Playing football probably wasn't free.

Why, just because your kid plays? Well, there might be 160 kids out there. Want to let all 320 parents on the sideline so they can take iPhone pics? Wait, some have step parents, too, so lets throw 400 parents on the sidelines so they can get a pic of their kid. They are entitled! It is their kid!

Tom,

Thank you for taking time to share your opinions. They were amusing to read.


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Thomas ­ Campbell
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Sep 20, 2012 15:47 |  #27

PaulMedik wrote in post #15019890 (external link)
Tom,

Thank you for taking time to share your opinions. They were amusing to read.

As were your entitled GWC rants.


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MJPhotos24
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Sep 20, 2012 16:43 |  #28

Thomas Campbell wrote in post #15020055 (external link)
As were your entitled GWC rants.

They are very amusing!

Principal seriously deserves a thank you for doing his job to make sure not every parent with a camera is allowed on the sidelines, it's refreshing! He can visit this thread and see that everyone agrees with him, full support!

Favorite line, "honesty and hard work"...so instead of working hard he joins an organization for their ID badge that says press, even though he's not press, thinking it gets him a magic pass onto the sidelines like you can just go out and buy one. The pass has about as much weight in the real world as printing one yourself and putting it around your neck. If only the NPPA says that, wait they do...

Q: Can these NPPA Member Photo ID cards be used as press credentials?
A: The ID IS NOT a Press Credential. The ID is issued solely for the purpose of identifying NPPA members in good standing who have agreed to uphold the NPPA Code of Ethics. At the sole responsibility and liability of the Bearer, the ID may be used for identification purposes only. The NPPA and/or any other agency, officer or entity thereof disclaims any and all legal liability or responsibility for the use of the ID other than to identify the person whose name and photo appears thereupon as a member of the NPPA. Use of said ID by the Bearer does not constitute or imply an endorsement, recommendation, promotion or certification by the NPPA. Issuance by the NPPA of said ID does not constitute or imply that by presenting and/or displaying said ID, the bearer is entitled to obtain credentials of any type (including but not limited to: press, police, fire, event). For more information, please read this article.


Hard work, yes it's really hard work to buy a camera, have an entitlement attitude because of said camera that you should be allowed anywhere you want, so much that you're willing to buy a useless ID badge trying to pass it off as a press pass. Since when is undercutting the guy who actually puts in the work hard?


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mobei
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Sep 20, 2012 18:11 |  #29

PaulMedik wrote in post #15019885 (external link)
mobei,

Perhpas you should reread my posts and research a little.

The game was MIDDLE SCHOOL, not High School.

I am selling photos on my site? Amusing; I have no site and I am NOT selling photos. I store photos online @ Webshots and @ Fotki; they sell prints; Prints that I do NOT get any percentage of. Downloading full size is FREE.

I stand corrected on the school. Some Middle schools do business the same way High Schools do. I have agreements with Middle schools as well as High Schools.
Splitting hairs: The site that you upload the photos to sells them then. Someone enabled by you is undercutting the pro ? Unethical behavior.




  
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12Rock
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Sep 20, 2012 20:06 |  #30

Mj I agree with you on this subject but have to admitt it seems like this really hit a nerve with you




  
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Sideline access for HS football; My unsual encounter with HS Principal
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