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Thread started 18 Sep 2012 (Tuesday) 10:36
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My Musing on the 6D vs D600... And Canon in General right now

 
Mark0159
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Sep 27, 2012 15:23 |  #76

borism wrote in post #15050637 (external link)
One thing that I really like from the Nikon D600 are two things (I am not sure for the rest but for me these are pretty important differences )

One is the possibility to turn the camera into CROP mode.. I think that is genius , I for example love the crop for my sport shooting, giving reach to more normal lens and effectively doubling the use and flexibility of the lens and body, I think that is pretty cool

but what's the point in having a crop factor when you can load the photo in to DPP, Lightroom, Photoshop or whatever tool you use and do the same thing.


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borism
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Sep 27, 2012 15:37 |  #77

The point is that you can not use your EFS (or in this case your DX available to you) lens on the 6D
Yes you can crop in LR, but you can not see the final shot at the time of taking the pic


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KenjiS
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Sep 27, 2012 15:46 |  #78

borism wrote in post #15050983 (external link)
The point is that you can not use your EFS (or in this case your DX available to you) lens on the 6D
Yes you can crop in LR, but you can not see the final shot at the time of taking the pic

Technically you cant even mount an EF-S lens on a 6D without modifying it... That big rubber gasket at the back stops you from doing it and supposedly it might damage the DSLR/lens due to the mirror impacting the back of the lens..

That said, if you're going to do that, I wouldnt bother...it makes no sense on BOTH the D600 and 6D since you're going to be cropping a huge chunk of that big sensor away, leaving you with 10mp on the D600 and around 7-8 on the 6D... if you have a bunch of crop lenses then I'd stick with a crop camera which is going to offer better IQ with those lenses until you can afford to replace them with FF equivalents.. its one of those "its nice in theory but in practice its just not really worth it" things... The only camera right now where crop mode is attractive is the D800 and id still rather have a 7D over it if i need crop that often because of the higher pixel density

At least unlike Nikon we have the 17-40 which is a nice affordable wide, Nikon doesnt have that.. (The 16-35 f/4 is quite pricey..)


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gjl711
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Sep 27, 2012 15:50 |  #79

borism wrote in post #15050637 (external link)
...I for example love the crop for my sport shooting, giving reach to more normal lens and effectively doubling the use and flexibility of the lens and body,...

borism wrote in post #15050983 (external link)
The point is that you can not use your EFS (or in this case your DX available to you) lens on the 6D
Yes you can crop in LR, but you can not see the final shot at the time of taking the pic

You are missing the point. Though Nikon allows you to mount a DX lens, you do not get the advantage of putting more pixels on the target as you would shooting with a crop camera thus giving the impression of more reach while retaining detail. In essence all Nikon allows you to do is mount the DX lens and take a picture and saves the cropped out center. So in your example of sports shooting, you get no advantage at all. You do not get more reach nor do you get any additional flexibility. All you get is a cropped portion of the picture.


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Mark0159
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Sep 27, 2012 15:55 |  #80

borism wrote in post #15050983 (external link)
The point is that you can not use your EFS (or in this case your DX available to you) lens on the 6D
Yes you can crop in LR, but you can not see the final shot at the time of taking the pic


and there's nothing wrong with that. If you don't like the fact that you have to get rid of your EF-S lens then perhaps FF isn't for you?

While there might be a good reason to allow the upgrade path to be easer there is a good reason why they can't.

and it has to do with the way that canon has designed it's lens. it's just not a lenses element that's different it has to do with the barrel that's causes the issues.

IMAGE: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/Canon_EF_and_EF-S_lens_comparison.jpg/800px-Canon_EF_and_EF-S_lens_comparison.jpg

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Sep 27, 2012 16:09 |  #81

gjl711 wrote in post #15051037 (external link)
You are missing the point. Though Nikon allows you to mount a DX lens, you do not get the advantage of putting more pixels on the target as you would shooting with a crop camera thus giving the impression of more reach while retaining detail. In essence all Nikon allows you to do is mount the DX lens and take a picture and saves the cropped out center. So in your example of sports shooting, you get no advantage at all. You do not get more reach nor do you get any additional flexibility. All you get is a cropped portion of the picture.


Sorry, but Im not missing the point
I follow your explanation about the pixel density and simply cropping the file on your computer
I am impressed that you guys dont consider an advantage to be able to mount Any lens on your camera, while Canon does not allow you to do that at all.
I think it gives you flexibility when you need it, to be ale to decide if you want a 24mp FF image or a 12Mp crop (closer for example) of your kid playing football at the turn of a switch.
Just my humble opinion as a regular amateur "soccer mom" user


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KenjiS
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Sep 27, 2012 16:39 |  #82

Its not 12, its 10 for one

"Regular amateur soccer mom user" is probubly not buying either of these cameras because they're black and ugly, they dont coordinate with their kids soccer uniforms, and they're big and unsightly, Not to mention the fact they can easily just get a 24mp compact that comes in green (Which goes with their eyes) and fits in the pocket of their $400 skinny jeans...and it only cost them a tenner, Who spends $2000 on a camera after all, the pictures are all the same, Ken Rockwell says so and hes who Siri went to first so it must be right


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borism
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Sep 27, 2012 16:57 |  #83

KenjiS wrote in post #15051189 (external link)
Its not 12, its 10 for one

"Regular amateur soccer mom user" is probubly not buying either of these cameras because they're black and ugly, they dont coordinate with their kids soccer uniforms, and they're big and unsightly, Not to mention the fact they can easily just get a 24mp compact that comes in green (Which goes with their eyes) and fits in the pocket of their $400 skinny jeans...and it only cost them a tenner, Who spends $2000 on a camera after all, the pictures are all the same, Ken Rockwell says so and hes who Siri went to first so it must be right

You lost me there
I would like to have a Full Frame camera for better quality image, shallower DOF and better Noise handling, and i dont think I can fit on skinny jeans :-)

10mp or 12mp you get the idea

I think you guys are taking me out of contest here
i dont want to keep my efs lens to use it on a FF camera
i dont need 7D AND a 6D
i am not switch to Nikon only for this feature, in fact I am not switching at all

I just think is practical to have the resource to switch modes on command and be able to see the shot as you take the image
Imagine you having only a 24-105 on a soccer game but the archery is too far, Flip the switch (or menu) and BAM! you got a 170mm and you can see the shot and AF accordingly as you take it
Is it 10mp? yes , but it works (for me at least), can you do it later at home Yes..but you will not be seen the shot as you take it
And please spare me the "Is not 170mm still 105mm" is the the Field of View explanation :rolleyes:
I guess that feature does not make any sense to you, but apparently Nikon seems to think is worth to have ;)

Not a debate, just my humble opinion


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gjl711
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Sep 27, 2012 17:25 |  #84

borism wrote in post #15051244 (external link)
...
Imagine you having only a 24-105 on a soccer game but the archery is too far, Flip the switch (or menu) and BAM! you got a 170mm and you can see the shot and AF accordingly as you take it
Is it 10mp? yes , but it works (for me at least), can you do it later at home Yes..but you will not be seen the shot as you take it
And please spare me the "Is not 170mm still 105mm" is the the Field of View explanation :rolleyes:
I guess that feature does not make any sense to you, but apparently Nikon seems to think is worth to have ;)...

But it isn't 170, that's the point. It's still 105. You are not gaining anything other than seeing the shot as you take it. Photographically, there is no advantage. You get no extra reach, you get no extra pixels on the target, you get the exact same image as if you would have taken the image with the 105 and cropped the center.


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worrptangl
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Sep 28, 2012 22:20 |  #85

And it's not at the flick of a switch if I remember correctly. The body registers the DX lens and crops automatically. It actually puts a box or corners in the view finder so you can frame it correctly.




  
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foxesamu
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Sep 28, 2012 23:01 |  #86

gjl711 wrote in post #15051353 (external link)
But it isn't 170, that's the point. It's still 105. You are not gaining anything other than seeing the shot as you take it. Photographically, there is no advantage. You get no extra reach, you get no extra pixels on the target, you get the exact same image as if you would have taken the image with the 105 and cropped the center.

Plus it's already hard to see DX mode on the D700/D800. The D3/D4 at least mask the viewfinder, but the Dxxx bodies only put a thin box around it, which is obviously easy to forget about when you're shooting, making it possibly more difficult to compose a shot you'd want to crop.

DX mode is only useful if you really don't want to sell your lenses for some reason.




  
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foxesamu
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Sep 28, 2012 23:02 |  #87

worrptangl wrote in post #15056412 (external link)
And it's not at the flick of a switch if I remember correctly. The body registers the DX lens and crops automatically. It actually puts a box or corners in the view finder so you can frame it correctly.

I turned off the DX recognition on my D700 so I could use my 35 in full frame mode. You can use a full frame lens in DX mode too if you'd like, but I don't know why you would. :p




  
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Sep 29, 2012 15:27 |  #88

KenjiS wrote in post #15018515 (external link)
Yeah, thus the "mostly plastic" the 6D is all mag except the top plate (Which is only so the Wi-Fi/GPS can work correctly) ;) You make other good points, So yeah maybe my info is a bit off, But still, Both cameras on paper look just about as "crippled" as the other in the respective lineups... We cant comment on the image quality on the 6D till more samples come out...

And I'm not going to lie, Despite thinking the 6D isnt that bad of a camera, yes I looked at the D600, the reason was more because of ergonomics than performance or anything however, the 6D im unsure on, the D600 looks like it would fit in my hand nicer and control easier with my hands... thats all

Hmmm, I don't think so. The 6d is way way more crippled than the D600. The 6d doesn't even have dual card slots.

If the 6d had dual card slots and a movable screen it'd be tops. But it doesn't. The 60d worked because it had the best canon aps-c sensor (less banding than 7d), plus the movable screen. The 6d has uhh...wireless, which IS cool. However, not as useful in the field imho, as a movable screen. :P The 6d will take great pics, I'm sure...but it does seem like they simply added as little as they thought they could get away with.


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Mark0159
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Sep 29, 2012 18:54 |  #89

woos wrote in post #15058399 (external link)
Hmmm, I don't think so. The 6d is way way more crippled than the D600. The 6d doesn't even have dual card slots.

If the 6d had dual card slots and a movable screen it'd be tops. But it doesn't. The 60d worked because it had the best canon aps-c sensor (less banding than 7d), plus the movable screen. The 6d has uhh...wireless, which IS cool. However, not as useful in the field imho, as a movable screen. :P The 6d will take great pics, I'm sure...but it does seem like they simply added as little as they thought they could get away with.

yea of course a camera with dual card slot is so yesterday how can people get buy with just one. it's not like the camera was built with two cards and then they have disabled one.

None of the other cameras that have a single card slot is crippled in anyway. You may think that your getting more bang for your buck, but to me the dual card is like the GPS in the 6D. A nice to have feature but important.

I think when the reviews and when people compare to the two they will find D600 and the 6D are about the same.


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Sep 29, 2012 19:02 |  #90

foxesamu wrote in post #15056518 (external link)
I turned off the DX recognition on my D700 so I could use my 35 in full frame mode. You can use a full frame lens in DX mode too if you'd like, but I don't know why you would. :p

I use a D800E and I've used it with our local HS football games. I use DX mode often in order to reduce the file size that I get when shooting at full frame. One of the advantages in using the DX mode means that I don't need to crop it during post and amplify any noise when shooting at night.

@ approximately 16mp in DX mode, I still get plenty of resolution. Some of the RAW files can even be as high as 46mp in DX mode.

The unique feature that I like about the camera with the four (4) custom image areas that it offers when using my Nikon 28mm f1.8G lens are:
a. I get a 28mm full frame field of view (36 x24)
b. 33.6 mm FOV in 1.2x mode (30x20)
c. 42mm in DX or 1.5x mode (24x16)
d. The other image area is 5:4 mode (30x24)

This makes it a good walk-around lens to take landscapes or group photos. It may be a little hard to understand if you haven't tried it but I love this feature.


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