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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 30 Sep 2012 (Sunday) 09:53
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Yes it's another full frame quest. Help decide.

 
Kellym7
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Sep 30, 2012 09:53 |  #1

Ok I'm tired of the noisy images with my t3i. So I'm I've reasearched and still can't decide between the not yet released 6D or the less expensive 5DII. I'm happy with everything about the t3i except the noise in low light photos. I've seen comparisons but can't decide. So I'm hoping I can get help here to decide. I've been shooting sports but daughter is a Pom so that's really where I need to take photos. The sidelines are not as well lit as center field. I do a lot of cropping which enhances the noise in the photos. I'm shooting with a 70-200 f2.8 lens. My budget limits me to these 2 choices. And I want full frame. I also shoot photos of dance in a dark theater. Have got some great shots but can't stand the noise. Please help me make this decision.


Canon T3i, Canon EF-S 18-55mm IS II lens, Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II Lens, Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG HSM II, Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

  
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bobbyz
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Sep 30, 2012 10:02 as a reply to  @ post 15060778 |  #2

sports etc, not sure how you will be happy with 5dmk2. Can you post some sample shots as to why noise is so bad? Just using FF not somehow magically get rid of the noise. It can give you say 1 stop or little more better noise performance but that is it.


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Sony A7rIV, , Tamron 28-200mm, Sigma 40mm f1.4 Art FE, Sony 85mm f1.8 FE, Sigma 105mm f1.4 Art FE
Fuji GFX50s, 23mm f4, 32-64mm, 45mm f2.8, 110mm f2, 120mm f4 macro
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Kellym7
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Sep 30, 2012 11:21 |  #3

bobbyz wrote in post #15060802 (external link)
sports etc, not sure how you will be happy with 5dmk2. Can you post some sample shots as to why noise is so bad? Just using FF not somehow magically get rid of the noise. It can give you say 1 stop or little more better noise performance but that is it.

If I could find a way to get rid of the noise I would be very happy with the camera I have. My wife is not happy, nor does she understand, about me spending another $2000 on a camera body. I bought a new lens it helped but still have lots of noise in photos.


Canon T3i, Canon EF-S 18-55mm IS II lens, Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II Lens, Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG HSM II, Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

  
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MakisM1
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Sep 30, 2012 11:45 as a reply to  @ post 15060778 |  #4

Can you post an example? There are ways to get rid of the noise, both by selecting your exposure (ETTR) and by using Noise Reduction (NR) programs.

The T3i has the same sensor as my 60D and I can do a lot to suppress noise.

Here is an example shot in a rather dark choir loft...

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ISO 12800 nonetheless...

Gerry
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ItsMike
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Sep 30, 2012 11:46 as a reply to  @ post 15060778 |  #5

Lightroom does wonders for removing Noise..

Just saying..


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Kellym7
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Sep 30, 2012 11:47 |  #6

MakisM1 wrote in post #15061070 (external link)
Can you post an example? There are ways to get rid of the noise, both by selecting your exposure (ETTR) and by using Noise Reduction (NR) programs.

The T3i has the same sensor as my 60D and I can do a lot to suppress noise.

trying to post photos. help i cant get them to post


Canon T3i, Canon EF-S 18-55mm IS II lens, Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II Lens, Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG HSM II, Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

  
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MakisM1
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Sep 30, 2012 11:51 |  #7

Kellym7 wrote in post #15061085 (external link)
trying to post photos. help i cant get them to post

If you are trying to post from you PC as attachments they have to be:

max 1024x768

Less than 150 k


Gerry
Canon 5D MkIII/Canon 60D/Canon EF-S 18-200/Canon EF 24-70L USM II/Canon EF 70-200L 2.8 USM II/Canon EF 50 f1.8 II/Σ 8-16/ 430 EXII
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Kellym7
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Sep 30, 2012 12:17 as a reply to  @ post 15060778 |  #8

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Kellym7
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Sep 30, 2012 12:21 as a reply to  @ Kellym7's post |  #9

a few others

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pxchoi
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Sep 30, 2012 12:45 |  #10

Kellym7 wrote in post #15061202 (external link)
a few others
QUOTED IMAGE
QUOTED IMAGE
QUOTED IMAGE

These are very difficult situations to shoot in - pretty much any camera would struggle.

The reason for the noise is because your shots are underexposed and you're shooting at high ISO. You can shoot at high ISO and push the histogram to the right to 'hide' some of the noise, but your shutter speed might be too slow to 'freeze' any of the movement.

I think the 5DII would only be a stop better. I don't know if there are any high ISO samples floating around of the 6D, but that might be a good choice - but it won't make noise go away like you are wanting it too.

But shooting in a dark scene, with action and on a moderately fast lens would be challenging for any photographer. Looking into faster primes might help you - 85mm f1.8 or 100mm f2. The lens doesn't make noise go away but a full stop advantage can be pretty useful in low light, but now you sacrifice reach.

I think brushing up on technique, knowledge and in post processing techniques will go further than picking up a new body. We wouldn't want to see a 'Why is there so much noise in my 5DII pictures!!??' thread.

Also, are you shooting in RAW?


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Kellym7
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Sep 30, 2012 13:04 |  #11

pxchoi wrote in post #15061262 (external link)
These are very difficult situations to shoot in - pretty much any camera would struggle.

The reason for the noise is because your shots are underexposed and you're shooting at high ISO. You can shoot at high ISO and push the histogram to the right to 'hide' some of the noise, but your shutter speed might be too slow to 'freeze' any of the movement.

I think the 5DII would only be a stop better. I don't know if there are any high ISO samples floating around of the 6D, but that might be a good choice - but it won't make noise go away like you are wanting it too.

But shooting in a dark scene, with action and on a moderately fast lens would be challenging for any photographer.

thanks patric. I understand low light and High ISO creates noise. The dance shots were actually shot with a slow lens (EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II Lens). The Pom and football shots were taken with Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG HSM II. ISO with that lens was set to auto with max 1600. Some shots were at f2.8 and others had good exposer at f3.2. I have shot a LOT of Underwater photos, with other cameras less in quality than SLR camera as well as some older SLR camera with less noise than I am getting now. I look at the features of the two other cameras and the t3i is actually faster focus. IS the slower focus going to be something I will even notice. If I buy one of these and still have this noise in photos Im going to be REALLY upset.

I use Lightroom 4.1 the slider to reduce noise is already all the way to the left. Am I missing something here? If I move the slider it only gets more noise.


Canon T3i, Canon EF-S 18-55mm IS II lens, Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II Lens, Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG HSM II, Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

  
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PixelMagic
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Sep 30, 2012 13:12 |  #12

I use Lightroom 4.1 the slider to reduce noise is already all the way to the left. Am I missing something here? If I move the slider it only gets more noise.

Lightroom has five sliders for controlling noise, so yes you are missing something. If you are reducing noise the sliders should not be at the extreme left.


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ejenner
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Sep 30, 2012 13:19 as a reply to  @ Kellym7's post |  #13

I was in the same situation with the t1i, which honestly I don't think will be much different than the t3i (raw). While I agree noise reduction makes a big difference, going to the 5DII was a quantum leap for me an was the difference between not cutting it and acceptable. Maybe the noise advantage is 'only' somewhere between 1-2 stops, but the shadows are much better at high ISO - there is color information there - and you can do a lot more with the PP. With the 5DII I can actually process and pint/display ISO6400 shots, even ones with a lot of shadows.

From some of the comments I have read it seems that the 5DIII may offer another significant improvement in the shadows (at high ISO) despite the actual noise being only perhaps 1/2 stop better.

Of course YMMV (I don't know if the improvement of FF will be enough you you) and obviously I don't know if the 6D will be better than the 5DII.


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pxchoi
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Sep 30, 2012 13:32 |  #14

Kellym7 wrote in post #15061331 (external link)
thanks patric. I understand low light and High ISO creates noise. The dance shots were actually shot with a slow lens (EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II Lens). The Pom and football shots were taken with Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG HSM II. ISO with that lens was set to auto with max 1600. Some shots were at f2.8 and others had good exposer at f3.2. I have shot a LOT of Underwater photos, with other cameras less in quality than SLR camera as well as some older SLR camera with less noise than I am getting now. I look at the features of the two other cameras and the t3i is actually faster focus. IS the slower focus going to be something I will even notice. If I buy one of these and still have this noise in photos Im going to be REALLY upset.

I use Lightroom 4.1 the slider to reduce noise is already all the way to the left. Am I missing something here? If I move the slider it only gets more noise.

I looked at the EXIF data of all the photos and I would still argue that your football photos are still underexposed and I have my monitor set to max brightness. I can't speak on behalf of other photos you have taken on other setups previously used or owned.

Like I said, unless you are about to purchase a 1Dx, you will have noise in your images at ISO 3200. On a camera like the 5DII, you'll probably get more film like noise than the nasty digital noise you are getting now - the color blotches.

And if you are not shooting in RAW, I would start - it will give you far more information to work with in Lightroom.


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bobbyz
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Sep 30, 2012 14:14 |  #15

Kellym7 wrote in post #15061331 (external link)
thanks patric. I understand low light and High ISO creates noise. The dance shots were actually shot with a slow lens (EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II Lens). The Pom and football shots were taken with Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG HSM II. ISO with that lens was set to auto with max 1600. Some shots were at f2.8 and others had good exposer at f3.2. I have shot a LOT of Underwater photos, with other cameras less in quality than SLR camera as well as some older SLR camera with less noise than I am getting now. I look at the features of the two other cameras and the t3i is actually faster focus. IS the slower focus going to be something I will even notice. If I buy one of these and still have this noise in photos Im going to be REALLY upset.

I use Lightroom 4.1 the slider to reduce noise is already all the way to the left. Am I missing something here? If I move the slider it only gets more noise.

See I am going to be blunt. Shooting night time football is not easy. Same goes for indoor low light performances. You need to know who to use the camera more than getting the new camera.

What is the max ISO on your camera? I would guess 6400. So put that ISO to 6400, aperture to f2.8 and see what kind of exposure you get at ss of say 1/500.

Throw the slow lens for shooting these night games/performances. Just sit and watch. :)


Fuji XT-1, 18-55mm
Sony A7rIV, , Tamron 28-200mm, Sigma 40mm f1.4 Art FE, Sony 85mm f1.8 FE, Sigma 105mm f1.4 Art FE
Fuji GFX50s, 23mm f4, 32-64mm, 45mm f2.8, 110mm f2, 120mm f4 macro
Canon 24mm TSE-II, 85mm f1.2 L II, 90mm TSE-II Macro, 300mm f2.8 IS I

  
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Yes it's another full frame quest. Help decide.
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