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Thread started 03 Oct 2012 (Wednesday) 08:40
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5DMK2 vs. 7D, which to buy?

 
Hogloff
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Oct 03, 2012 18:47 |  #31
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kcbrown wrote in post #15076351 (external link)
If I were on a budget, I'd go for the 7D to start off with and then, later on, pick up a 5D3.

Keep in mind that the 7D can be had for $1100 from CLP.

The 5D2 is better than the 7D at high ISO, by about a stop, but (and this is a notable difference) the 7D exhibits no horizontal banding all the way up to 12800, while the 5D2 apparently does. The overall noise signature is cleaner with the 5D2, though, by about a stop.

Hogloff is correct about the 7D's noise, but keep in mind that he's a landscaper that prints really huge and he's very sensitive to every little flaw in the image. If that describes you, then get the 5D2 (autofocus, burst rate, etc., aren't going to be useful to you at all for landscapes). If your uses are less demanding then that, then you'll be able to get excellent image quality out of the 7D as long as you learn to postprocess your shots properly. Lightroom helps enormously here.

Once you have enough money for a 5D3 (and, ostensibly, by that time the prices will be more reasonable), you'll be able to buy a camera body that gets you the best of everything. Until then, it seems to me that the 7D is the best bang for the buck, by quite a bit.

Biggest problem with going the 7d and then upgrade to a 5d3 is what do you do with all the EFS lenses you'll accumulate? If you want any decent wide angle abilities with a 7D, you'll need to go the EFS route which will be useless on a 5d3.

My suggestion would be to pick up a 5d2, or even a 5d and work on your FF lens line. Then when you move I to the 5d3, your lenses will be compatible.




  
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JamesDurbinMedia
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Oct 03, 2012 19:36 |  #32

There is no comparison, the 5D2 is hands down a far superior camera in all respects except frame rate. I wouldn't even lose a minute of my day debating this issue.
EDIT: But the 5D3 is what the 5D2 should have been.


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stsva
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Oct 03, 2012 19:53 |  #33

Hogloff wrote in post #15076040 (external link)
Not my experience with 7D. I find you have to spend a lot of time with 7D images and they do not clean up like a 5D2 image. Also, the noise comes into a 7D image at very low ISO levels, whereas the 5D2 is amazing right past 1600.

That may be, but my experience with the 7D and LR 4/4.1 is that the noise cleans up very well by doing nothing more than moving the luminance NR slider, which takes less than a second unless I spend another second or two tweaking it. I'm willing to spend a second or two for the flexibility and excellent images the 7D gives me. On the other hand, I certainly wouldn't mind having a 7DII (if one ever materializes) that has high-ISO noise capability equal to the 5DII's.


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stsva
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Oct 03, 2012 19:59 |  #34

Hogloff wrote in post #15076434 (external link)
Biggest problem with going the 7d and then upgrade to a 5d3 is what do you do with all the EFS lenses you'll accumulate? If you want any decent wide angle abilities with a 7D, you'll need to go the EFS route which will be useless on a 5d3.

My suggestion would be to pick up a 5d2, or even a 5d and work on your FF lens line. Then when you move I to the 5d3, your lenses will be compatible.

I really don't think the EF-S lens thing is much of a problem. I have a 7D and one EF-S lens (the 15-85); the remainder are all EF lenses, so I could get dual use out of them if I added a full frame, while retaining the greater effective "reach" I get from them on the 7D. If someone has both wide and long EF-S lenses, that's really not much of an investment on the long end, since it's generally the wide EF-S lenses that have the higher prices; when selling these, no great loss on the long end since not much was invested, and the wide ones sell for a pretty fair percentage of original purchase price, so no great loss there either.


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Hogloff
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Oct 03, 2012 20:42 |  #35
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stsva wrote in post #15076693 (external link)
I really don't think the EF-S lens thing is much of a problem. I have a 7D and one EF-S lens (the 15-85); the remainder are all EF lenses, so I could get dual use out of them if I added a full frame, while retaining the greater effective "reach" I get from them on the 7D. If someone has both wide and long EF-S lenses, that's really not much of an investment on the long end, since it's generally the wide EF-S lenses that have the higher prices; when selling these, no great loss on the long end since not much was invested, and the wide ones sell for a pretty fair percentage of original purchase price, so no great loss there either.

Isn't it funny where on one hand, you don't lose much in selling quality Canon glass...but when people talk about switching to Nikon, they say they can't as they would lose too much selling their Canon glass. Which is it?

I'm not ragging you here, just using you as an example.

I find people who come from a crop system, they have more than 1 EFS lens which they would have to sell moving to FF.

Personally, like I said before...if your future is a 5d3, start today with either a 5d or 5d2 and focus on glass. This allows a much smoother transition to a higher end FF.




  
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kcbrown
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Oct 03, 2012 20:51 |  #36

Hogloff wrote in post #15076434 (external link)
Biggest problem with going the 7d and then upgrade to a 5d3 is what do you do with all the EFS lenses you'll accumulate? If you want any decent wide angle abilities with a 7D, you'll need to go the EFS route which will be useless on a 5d3.

You sell them at that point. Or maybe you keep them, if you want your 7D to act as a proper backup. It really depends.

I mean, we're talking about the OP selling something anyway if he's looking to eventually get a 5D3. Whether it's lenses and a body or just a body probably doesn't matter all that much.


"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
Canon: 2 x 7D, Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, 55-250 IS, Sigma 8-16, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, other assorted primes, and a 430EX.
Nikon: D750, D600, 24-85 VR, 50 f/1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, Tamron 24-70 VC, Tamron 70-300 VC.

  
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kcbrown
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Oct 03, 2012 21:06 |  #37

Hogloff wrote in post #15076842 (external link)
Isn't it funny where on one hand, you don't lose much in selling quality Canon glass...but when people talk about switching to Nikon, they say they can't as they would lose too much selling their Canon glass. Which is it?

I'm not ragging you here, just using you as an example.

I find people who come from a crop system, they have more than 1 EFS lens which they would have to sell moving to FF.

The difference is that people who would hesitate to move to Canon because they'd have to sell their glass generally have a lot of glass, not just a couple of lenses. Frankly, there just aren't that many crop-only lenses that one is likely to have in their arsenal. An ultra-wide-angle zoom and a standard zoom are probably the only ones someone is likely to have. They might have a crop-only macro lens, but with the availability of excellent EF macro lenses from various manufacturers (including Canon), that is relatively unlikely. And the only crop-only prime worth mentioning is the Sigma 30 f/1.4.


Someone who is concerned about the loss from switching to Nikon, on the other hand, is likely to have quite a lot more than just two or three lenses to sell.

Personally, like I said before...if your future is a 5d3, start today with either a 5d or 5d2 and focus on glass. This allows a much smoother transition to a higher end FF.

Why should one sacrifice what one can do today in order to smooth a transition that, frankly, might not even happen? No, on this I stand firm: get the best camera and lens combination that suits your needs and fits within your budget now, and worry about upgrading later when the time comes. That might wind up being the 5D2 anyway, in which case, that's the right answer.


"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
Canon: 2 x 7D, Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, 55-250 IS, Sigma 8-16, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, other assorted primes, and a 430EX.
Nikon: D750, D600, 24-85 VR, 50 f/1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, Tamron 24-70 VC, Tamron 70-300 VC.

  
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TSchrief
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Oct 03, 2012 21:14 |  #38
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Hogloff wrote in post #15076434 (external link)
Biggest problem with going the 7d and then upgrade to a 5d3 is what do you do with all the EFS lenses you'll accumulate? If you want any decent wide angle abilities with a 7D, you'll need to go the EFS route which will be useless on a 5d3.

My suggestion would be to pick up a 5d2, or even a 5d and work on your FF lens line. Then when you move I to the 5d3, your lenses will be compatible.

I plan to keep my EF-s lenses. I have the 10-22, which is hard to beat in its focal length range, and the 18-135 which is decent enough for a walk around shooter. Whether I end up with a 5D2 (most likely right now) or a 6D. I plan to start out using only my current primes, 28 2.8, 50 1.8, 85 1.8, and my 70-200 and 100-400 with FF. That will be enough to start with. I don't see selling any of my EF-s stuff.

If I inherit some money or win the PowerBall I would probably acquire the 16-35 and the 24-70. THAT is expensive. What the heck, I'd also get a 1DX to mount them on.


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Oct 03, 2012 21:57 |  #39

I have both the 7D and 5Dii. Hands down, the 7D is the more fun camera to use. It has a superior menu system, you can click it like a machine gun a hope you get a good shot somewhere in the shoot, and you will get spoiled by its far superior autofocus system, once you learn it. With all these great tools, I think I have capture more winning shots with the 7D than the 5Dii. Also a 200mm telephoto becomes a 320mm lens and without the cost of a 300mm lens. Also you have the 17-55 lens that IMO is the best lens canon makes under a grand.

With that said, I am finding myself using the 5Dii more these days. Yes, the 5Dii doe not have the advanced tool like the 7D. But I like the pictures that come out of the 5Dii. Better subject isolation when you want it, less noise in low light, and I think it has a better dynamic range because I can fix under and over exposure more easily when I process the RAW files.
My big dislike of this 5d version is an inferior autofocus system that cant focus consistently for sports or low light. I had to adapt and become more discipline on how I shoot. Also I miss my 17-55IS.


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TSchrief
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Oct 03, 2012 22:03 |  #40
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snake0ape wrote in post #15077098 (external link)
I have both the 7D and 5Dii. Hands down, the 7D is the more fun camera to use. It has a superior menu system, you can click it like a machine gun a hope you get a good shot somewhere in the shoot, and you will get spoiled by its far superior autofocus system, once you learn it. With all these great tools, I think I have capture more winning shots with the 7D than the 5Dii. Also a 200mm telephoto becomes a 320mm lens and without the cost of a 300mm lens. Also you have the 17-55 lens that IMO is the best lens canon makes under a grand.

With that said, I am finding myself using the 5Dii more these days. Yes, the 5Dii doe not have the advanced tool like the 7D. But I like the pictures that come out of the 5Dii. Better subject isolation when you want it, less noise in low light, and I think it has a better dynamic range because I can fix under and over exposure more easily when I process the RAW files.
My big dislike of this 5d version is an inferior autofocus system that cant focus consistently for sports or low light. I had to adapt and become more discipline on how I shoot. Also I miss my 17-55IS.

I want to upgrade to 6D or 5D2 for my static landscape-type shots. I'll be using mostly 3 lenses for a while, 28 2.8, 50 1.8 and 85 1.8. If I need longer, I have a 70-200 and a 100-400. Since the 5D2 is cheap ($1800) right now, do you think that is a good move? I'll be keeping my 60D and EF-s stuff.


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kcbrown
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Oct 03, 2012 22:07 |  #41

TSchrief wrote in post #15077117 (external link)
I want to upgrade to 6D or 5D2 for my static landscape-type shots. I'll be using mostly 3 lenses for a while, 28 2.8, 50 1.8 and 85 1.8. If I need longer, I have a 70-200 and a 100-400. Since the 5D2 is cheap ($1800) right now, do you think that is a good move? I'll be keeping my 60D and EF-s stuff.

That sounds like a pretty decent plan, although you should probably borrow or rent one, because for landscapes (i.e., low ISO shots), the difference between the 60D and the 5D2 might not be as much (for you) as you're anticipating. Which is to say, you might decide it's not worth the money.

Now, if you really want to play with ultra-shallow depths of field and fun things like that, there's no substitute for full frame. And you only live once, so you should do what you need to get maximum enjoyment! :)


"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
Canon: 2 x 7D, Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, 55-250 IS, Sigma 8-16, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, other assorted primes, and a 430EX.
Nikon: D750, D600, 24-85 VR, 50 f/1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, Tamron 24-70 VC, Tamron 70-300 VC.

  
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TSchrief
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Oct 03, 2012 22:32 |  #42
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kcbrown wrote in post #15077125 (external link)
That sounds like a pretty decent plan, although you should probably borrow or rent one, because for landscapes (i.e., low ISO shots), the difference between the 60D and the 5D2 might not be as much (for you) as you're anticipating. Which is to say, you might decide it's not worth the money.

Now, if you really want to play with ultra-shallow depths of field and fun things like that, there's no substitute for full frame. And you only live once, so you should do what you need to get maximum enjoyment! :)

Thanks for the quick response. I am anticipating noticeable IQ improvements. Perhaps too much so. Shallow DOF with whatever FF I get is also part of the anticipation. Hence my use of fast(er) primes, instead of going with a slow-aperture zoom. I would only get something like the 24-105 if I get rid of the APS-c stuff. I could see a faster zoom in the future, but the 16-35 and 24-70 are comparatively expensive.
Still debating a 5D2 from BestBuy for $1799. I expect it to hold its value fairly well. A low shutter count 5D2 should be worth it weight in gold in a year or two.


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kcbrown
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Oct 03, 2012 23:07 |  #43

TSchrief wrote in post #15077209 (external link)
Thanks for the quick response. I am anticipating noticeable IQ improvements. Perhaps too much so. Shallow DOF with whatever FF I get is also part of the anticipation. Hence my use of fast(er) primes, instead of going with a slow-aperture zoom. I would only get something like the 24-105 if I get rid of the APS-c stuff. I could see a faster zoom in the future, but the 16-35 and 24-70 are comparatively expensive.

If there's any way you can get your hands on a 5D2 for a couple of days to try it out, you should do so. Lensrentals.com will rent you one for $90 for 4 days. Considering the amount of money you're thinking of dropping on one, that seems like it would be a decent option if you can't borrow one from someone.

Still debating a 5D2 from BestBuy for $1799. I expect it to hold its value fairly well. A low shutter count 5D2 should be worth it weight in gold in a year or two.

With the 6D coming out, I rather doubt the 5D2 will hold its value in the way you anticipate, especially if the 6D lives up to the -3 Db autofocus claim. It will almost certainly do better than the 5D2 in terms of high ISO image quality as well, since there's no reason to believe it will exhibit horizontal banding at ultra-high ISOs the way the 5D2 does. And it certainly won't be worse than the 5D2 at low ISOs.

A $300 difference (which amounts to a 16% difference) between the 5D2 and the 6D (and that's at the 6D's introductory price, no less, which is the highest price it'll likely ever have) doesn't seem like enough of a difference to make the 5D2 all that compelling for that price.


I wouldn't buy a camera based on how well it's likely to retain its value in any case. I'd buy it because it's what I really want. If the 5D2 is what you really want then go for it! But I'd make sure it's what you really want first.


"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
Canon: 2 x 7D, Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, 55-250 IS, Sigma 8-16, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, other assorted primes, and a 430EX.
Nikon: D750, D600, 24-85 VR, 50 f/1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, Tamron 24-70 VC, Tamron 70-300 VC.

  
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Oct 03, 2012 23:27 |  #44

snake0ape wrote in post #15077098 (external link)
I have both the 7D and 5Dii. Hands down, the 7D is the more fun camera to use. ... you can click it like a machine gun and hope you get a good shot somewhere in the shoot, .... I think I have capture more winning shots with the 7D than the 5Dii. ..... .

So pray and spray shooting wins for you. Personally I prefer the tried and proven method of knowing when and how to get the great shot .. it's called skill, luck shouldn't really have much to do with it ;)

snake0ape wrote in post #15077098 (external link)
.....
With that said, I am finding myself using the 5Dii more these days. ..... But I like the pictures that come out of the 5Dii. Better subject isolation when you want it, less noise in low light, and I think it has a better dynamic range because I can fix under and over exposure more easily when I process the RAW files.
..... I had to adapt and become more discipline on how I shoot. Also I miss my 17-55IS.

Yep .. having cut my teeth shooting with manual focus and manual control 35mm Canon cameras back in the '70s I can relate to discipline when it comes to composure and exposures. It was expensive back then to waste shots, so you soon learnt how to do it properly :)


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Charlie
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Oct 03, 2012 23:56 |  #45

5d2 easily, even for sports. I'm all about quality over quantity, especially as an amateur. I find out that most shots can be captured again, hence the framerate is nothing than more workflow.


Sony A7riii/A9 - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - SY 24/2.8 - FE 28/2 - FE 35/2.8 - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8 - Tamron 17-28/2.8 - 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
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