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Thread started 03 Oct 2012 (Wednesday) 12:08
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Color Management Problem

 
BTBeilke
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Oct 03, 2012 12:08 |  #1

I have an X-Rite i1Display Pro that I use to calibrate my RGB-LED monitor. I've used the i1Display Pro for over a year now and haven't had any problems (at least none of which I was aware). However, I took a picture for my daughter's high school drama production last night that they are going to use to promote their play (Sweet Charity). As you can see below, most of the color in this picture are shades/tones of red.

The first thing I noticed was that the thumbnails in Windows Explorer (Win 7 64-bit SP1) appeared more blood red that the images I was looking at in Photoshop or Photo Ninja. And then, oddly, when I uploaded a picture to my SmugMug site, the thumbnail has the "blood red" appearance but the larger preview picture (or any other size of picture that I choose to view) does not. Upon more investigation, if I view the picture in Google Chrome or in Firefox, it looks like it does in Photoshop. If I view it in IE9, I see the "blood red" version. (And according to this page (external link), IE9 is the only one of these browsers that is ICC v4 ready.)

Lastly, I printed the photo on my Pixma printer. I don't often print my own photos and this printer is not calibrated. But in the past when I have printed, the prints matched what I was seeing on my monitor pretty closely. When I sent the print, I checked the box to let Photoshop manage the colors. The output was very close to the "blood red" version of the picture.

So now I'm at a loss as to what is going on and which "view" of the photo is correct. The only thing that has changed recently is that I had to replace the graphics adapter in my laptop. It's a newer version of original adapter but I re-calibrated my monitor right after swapping the adapters. If anyone can shed any light on this problem, I'd appreciate it.

The appearance in Photoshop/Photo Ninja is on the left, the "blood red" view in other applications is on the right.

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO

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tim
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Oct 03, 2012 13:57 |  #2

Your image will likely be in Adobe RGB or ProFoto RGB. Not all applications are color space aware. Trust Photoshop. Your final output space should be whichever your audience supports - sRgb for web, sRgb for low end printers, Adobe RGB for high end printers. You should have your working space set to the same as your output space.


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RandMan
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Oct 03, 2012 14:51 |  #3

tim wrote in post #15075321 (external link)
Your image will likely be in Adobe RGB or ProFoto RGB. Not all applications are color space aware. Trust Photoshop. Your final output space should be whichever your audience supports - sRgb for web, sRgb for low end printers, Adobe RGB for high end printers. You should have your working space set to the same as your output space.

Yup.


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BTBeilke
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Oct 03, 2012 15:34 |  #4

tim wrote in post #15075321 (external link)
Your image will likely be in Adobe RGB or ProFoto RGB. Not all applications are color space aware. Trust Photoshop. Your final output space should be whichever your audience supports - sRgb for web, sRgb for low end printers, Adobe RGB for high end printers. You should have your working space set to the same as your output space.

Yes, I agree. Here is my usual workflow and feel free to offer any advice if I should be doing something differently. Normally when I convert my RAW files to TIFF, my TIFFs are in Adobe RGB. However, after all the processing is done if I need JPEGs to upload to the web or for a print service, I output those JPEGs in sRGB.

In this case (and what has been my typical experience) to my eye I cannot tell the difference between the TIFF (Adobe RGB) and JPEG (sRGB) when viewing them side-by-side in Photoshop. And as far as viewing this photo in other applications, I've have used the exact same sRGB JPEG in all cases and it was the JPEG that I uploaded to SmugMug. It is this same sRGB JPEG file that appears differently in different browsers/applications. And this is the first time I've ever noticed such a color difference between the thumbnail in one SmugMug's galleries and the actual picture preview/picture. After all, the thumbnail, preview, and various available picture sizes are generated from the exact same JPEG image. Why would the thumbnail be, or appear to be, different?

If the photo would have printed closer to what I'm seeing in Photoshop, I wouldn't be nearly as concerned. But it's the fact that the printer output closely matched to the redder version that really makes me wonder what's going on. (As I noted above, the printer is not calibrated but has always been very close to my monitor and prints I get back from my local camera shop or online services.) EDIT: It was the TIFF image that I printed using the "Photoshop manages colors" option.


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tim
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Oct 03, 2012 15:58 |  #5

Please open the tiff in photoshop, resize to 1000 pixels on the long side, "save as" (NOT save for web), and upload that to a web server. Don't attach it, don't put it on an image sharing service, upload it as is to a web server. If you can't do that PM me and I'll give you my email address to email it to.


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BTBeilke
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Oct 03, 2012 16:47 |  #6

tim wrote in post #15075824 (external link)
Please open the tiff in photoshop, resize to 1000 pixels on the long side, "save as" (NOT save for web), and upload that to a web server. Don't attach it, don't put it on an image sharing service, upload it as is to a web server. If you can't do that PM me and I'll give you my email address to email it to.

https://hotfile.com …3L1570_v1.1000p​x.tif.html (external link)

Thanks, Tim


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tim
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Oct 03, 2012 17:21 |  #7

I'll have a look when I'm back at my Photoshop PC in about 8 hours. Someone else may be able to take a look and see what's up.

Maybe upload the jpeg(s) as well.


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BTBeilke
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Oct 03, 2012 19:58 |  #8

tim wrote in post #15076125 (external link)
I'll have a look when I'm back at my Photoshop PC in about 8 hours. Someone else may be able to take a look and see what's up.

Maybe upload the jpeg(s) as well.

Here is a reduced (1000 px) version of the JPEG:

https://hotfile.com …3L1570_v1.1000p​x.jpg.html (external link)

This is the file I posted above. This was the exact same original JPEG loaded in Google Chrome and IE9 viewed side-by-side on my calibrated monitor. I just did a screen capture to get the image showing how different the photo looked in the different browsers.

https://hotfile.com …a328829/Capture​2.JPG.html (external link)


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kirkt
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Oct 03, 2012 22:44 |  #9

NOTE: I am on a LED MacBook Pro, so no IE to test. I use Safari, and, looking at your first post with the screen shot, the image on the right looks blood red, the image on the left looks orangish. This is just a descriptive reference so you know what I am seeing in your screen shot.

I downloaded the TIFF and opened it in PSCS6. It opened as an AdobeRGB 16bit TIFF. Is this correct? I just want to make sure I am getting the correct input here. The image, as opened in PSCS6 looks like the blood red image on the right of your screen shot above, not the orangish image on the left. in other words, when I open your TIFF in PS, it does not look like the image you describe as being a screen shot from PS on your machine (the image on the left).

I took the original and duplicated it. I used the duplicate to Convert To Profile > sRGB. I saved this as JPEG and embedded the sRGB profile in the JPEG. I opened this sRGB JPEG in Safari, Firefox and Chrome. All of the images look like the "blood red" one on the right of your screen shot image versus the orangish image on the left. They all look identical across browsers. The only perceptible change during conversion from AdobeRBG to sRGB was a slight change in the black point, with sRGB dark shadows getting darker than the original (in the stage floor below the spotlight area and up at the top of the image). You can softproof the AdobeRGB image with the soft proofing profile set to Internet Standard sRGB (or just choose sRGB from your normal list of profiles) to toggle back and forth (CMD-Y or CTRL-Y to toggle soft-poofing). I also did not notice an appreciable change in color when converting to 8 bit from 16 bit.

So it appears that your image in your PS does not match your image in my PS. First question: in your recollection, was the lighting red or orangish? In other words, which image looks more correct? If PS is not displaying the image correctly, what could be causing this? What are your color settings? I use AdobeRGB for my working color space - what is yours? Have you updated your video drivers and are you currently enabling OpenGL in PS? What happens of you update your drivers or disable OpenGL support in PS?

PC folks are going to have to chime in on system-wide versus application-wide display profile assignment and support, especially for Wide Gamut Displays. In other words, do you have to tell PS explicitly what your display profile is within the PS preferences, or does it pick that up automatically? Did you accidentally set your working space to your display profile?

Nice shot, BTW.

kirk

The screen shots I have included were captured to the clipboard and pasted into PS where they were ASSIGNED my display's profile and then CONVERTED to sRGB for web display. THey are highly compressed, so ignore the compression artifacts.

Do these screen shots look red or orange to you? In which browsers?


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tim
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Oct 03, 2012 23:21 |  #10

I could only download one file, you used one of those annoying free file sharing systems that wants you to wait/pay. I may be able to download the other files later.

The TIFF is Adobe RGB, it looks like the image on the right in your first image. The background is RGB 255 0 4, so almost pure red. I would it expect it to look like the image on the right in Photoshop, if it doesn't your Photoshop color settings could be wrong.

Can you post screenshots of your windows control panel color settings and photoshop color settings?


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BTBeilke
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Oct 03, 2012 23:38 |  #11

Kirk,

The TIFF image is indeed Adobe RGB (16bpc). Here are my color settings in Photoshop:

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO


Should I have this set up differently?

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kirkt
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Oct 03, 2012 23:49 |  #12

Those are pretty much identical to mine. I will defer to Tim and the other PC folks. We'll get this figured out.

Kirk


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tim
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Oct 03, 2012 23:59 |  #13

Looks fine to me. Can you screen shot your windows color settings?

The tif and jpeg look the same to me, in photoshop. The jpeg has sRgb embedded fine.


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Oct 04, 2012 06:58 |  #14

BTBeilke wrote in post #15075701 (external link)
Normally when I convert my RAW files to TIFF, my TIFFs are in Adobe RGB. However, after all the processing is done if I need JPEGs to upload to the web or for a print service, I output those JPEGs in sRGB.

This is exactly what I do. Calibrated monitor (most important), Adobe RGB in Camera RAW and Photoshop CS5. Basically the files "live" in that color space unless I'm uploading to the web or printing from somewhere that doesn't support Adobe RGB; in which case I convert to sRGB.


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tccin3D
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Oct 04, 2012 07:40 as a reply to  @ RandMan's post |  #15

Maybe you should use 'ask when opening' and other warning check-boxes for colour profile mismatch, so you know when you open your picture it does not get into wrong working color space (it can happen).
You probably have clicked proofing CTRL+Y and it explains the yellow shift, (view>proof setup>internet standard or monitor color, sometimes CMYK depends what you choose). After conversion to sRGB it disappears - goes back to deep red.




  
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