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FORUMS News & Rumors Camera Rumors and Predictions 
Thread started 23 Sep 2012 (Sunday) 05:28
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A 5D offering 46.1 MPs in a 1D shell

 
David ­ Arbogast
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Oct 04, 2012 00:32 |  #181

I sure hope this rumor is based in reality, because we've all been talking about a 46.1 MP camera as if it's a sure thing and not a mere rumor. For all we know Canon's working on an all-new 23MP sensor for the 5D IV that "features" super-enhanced banding with integrated custom watermarking. Just think how proud you'll be when you lift the shadows of your photos in post only to reveal garish bands of chroma noise with your name as the only "recoverable" detail in the shadows. Canon could market it as an image-theft deterrent feature and charge extra for it. ;)


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pxchoi
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Oct 04, 2012 02:18 |  #182

^^^^ super-enhanced banding lololololol


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jdizzle
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Oct 04, 2012 06:07 |  #183

David Arbogast wrote in post #15077603 (external link)
I sure hope this rumor is based in reality, because we've all been talking about a 46.1 MP camera as if it's a sure thing and not a mere rumor. For all we know Canon's working on an all-new 23MP sensor for the 5D IV that "features" super-enhanced banding with integrated custom watermarking. Just think how proud you'll be when you lift the shadows of your photos in post only to reveal garish bands of chroma noise with your name as the only "recoverable" detail in the shadows. Canon could market it as an image-theft deterrent feature and charge extra for it. ;)

Hehe! Digi medium format will be the next step. ;)




  
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watt100
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Oct 04, 2012 12:56 |  #184

jdizzle wrote in post #15076752 (external link)
I wouldn't bet on that price. ;)

I suppose one can always hope




  
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sploo
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Oct 05, 2012 09:14 |  #185

nuffi wrote in post #15076895 (external link)
...If this really is a 3d, then it follows that it will be placed somewhere between the 5d and 1d range, which would put it in the $4500 - $5000 range. That's not a direct competitor to the d800. Clearly they think the 5diii is that.

That's the problem (which I think Shadowblade has previous pointed out); Canon doesn't exist in isolation.

There's nothing wrong with them having a 5D3 in the $3500 range, and a potential high DR/high MP body in the $4500-5000 range. It's just that the $2000 D600 exists, and is arguably closer in "intention" to the 5D3 than the D800. A future high MP body would considered by the market as a competitor to the D800, which at $3000 would compare very favourably with a $4500+ Canon body.

David Arbogast wrote in post #15077603 (external link)
...For all we know Canon's working on an all-new 23MP sensor for the 5D IV that "features" super-enhanced banding with integrated custom watermarking. Just think how proud you'll be when you lift the shadows of your photos in post only to reveal garish bands of chroma noise with your name as the only "recoverable" detail in the shadows. Canon could market it as an image-theft deterrent feature and charge extra for it. ;)

I have a horrible vision of pulling the Shadows slider in LR4... and out of the darkness appears the words "YOU SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT A NIKON" ;)


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bjyoder
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Oct 05, 2012 11:06 |  #186

sploo wrote in post #15082911 (external link)
That's the problem (which I think Shadowblade has previous pointed out); Canon doesn't exist in isolation.

There's nothing wrong with them having a 5D3 in the $3500 range, and a potential high DR/high MP body in the $4500-5000 range. It's just that the $2000 D600 exists, and is arguably closer in "intention" to the 5D3 than the D800. A future high MP body would considered by the market as a competitor to the D800, which at $3000 would compare very favourably with a $4500+ Canon body.

No, Canon does not exist in isolation, but that doesn't mean the D600 is a 5D3. Sure, the argument is there that the 5D3 is overpriced - it was there from the start with the D800 being $500 less expensive for all those shiney MPs. However, to say/imply as some have that the 5D3 will be over priced until it loses $1,000* off MSRP is silly.

We've seen it time and time again that Canon knows how to make a kickin' camera. The 60D vs. D7000 has shown that, while Nikon has the headlines, the 60D is an extremely capable camera, probably moreso than the D7000. Likewise with the 5D3 vs. D800. This is not to say the Nikon cameras above are bad, far from it. However, sensors aside**, Canon puts their cameras into the marketplace where they intend them to be. Just because they don't have the headline-grabbing specs doesn't mean they don't belong in their respective market segments.

* Totally made up dollar amount. I've seen some suggestions that the 5D3 should indeed lose that much off it's price, but not many are going that far.

** Yes, the sensor is a very important part of the camera, and we all know Sony is King. Canon would do well to either buy Sony sensors (unlikely), or, sometime very soon, show what's up their sleeves. While I wouldn't say Canon has a bad sensor, they are clearly being outclassed here.


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sploo
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Oct 05, 2012 12:24 |  #187

bjyoder wrote in post #15083363 (external link)
No, Canon does not exist in isolation, but that doesn't mean the D600 is a 5D3. Sure, the argument is there that the 5D3 is overpriced - it was there from the start with the D800 being $500 less expensive for all those shiney MPs. However, to say/imply as some have that the 5D3 will be over priced until it loses $1,000* off MSRP is silly.

We've seen it time and time again that Canon knows how to make a kickin' camera. The 60D vs. D7000 has shown that, while Nikon has the headlines, the 60D is an extremely capable camera, probably moreso than the D7000. Likewise with the 5D3 vs. D800. This is not to say the Nikon cameras above are bad, far from it. However, sensors aside**, Canon puts their cameras into the marketplace where they intend them to be. Just because they don't have the headline-grabbing specs doesn't mean they don't belong in their respective market segments.

* Totally made up dollar amount. I've seen some suggestions that the 5D3 should indeed lose that much off it's price, but not many are going that far.

** Yes, the sensor is a very important part of the camera, and we all know Sony is King. Canon would do well to either buy Sony sensors (unlikely), or, sometime very soon, show what's up their sleeves. While I wouldn't say Canon has a bad sensor, they are clearly being outclassed here.

Agreed. I do see the 5D3 and D800 as very different cameras (one moderately high fps, great SOOC jpeg, great AF, very good high ISO images; the other lower fps, superb low ISO image quality). However, I don't think the 5D3 justifies being more expensive than the D800. Same price maybe.

I like the 60D (other half has one), and amusingly, despite having the 'same' sensor as the 7D, it does appear to suffer from slightly less shadow noise/banding when lifting shadows. Not used a D7000 I must admit.

Should Canon release a (pricey) high MP/high DR body, then they could well end up with a D600 vs. 5D3, D800 vs. 3D situation, where the Canon product is arguably better, but significantly more expensive. Of course they won't pitch it like that, but it'd be closer to where those cameras would likely be in terms of intention and interest to different types of shooters.

That said, the reports on this forum regarding the D600 so far is that the image quality is excellent - such that it looks to be not unreasonable competition to the 5D3.


Camera, some lenses, too little time, too little talent

  
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Osiriz
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Jan 28, 2013 03:06 as a reply to  @ sploo's post |  #188

So Canonrumors just posted a "[CR2]-rumor" on what seems to be Canon's roadmap for 2013. The big MP body is not even mentioned in it.

A few months back there were lots of rumors floating around, but now it is suddenly all quiet about the big MP body. Was it all just wishful thinking?? Is Canon really going to let the D800 / D800E reign supreme for two years without answering?

In before the canonite knights in shining armor shows up:
Yes, the D800 sensor does kick Canon's sensors in every possible way (not just resolution).
No, I'm not a Nikon fanboy.
No, I don't wanna sell all my gear and move to Nikon.
Yes, Canon has better glass, ergonomics, live view and rate button.
:rolleyes:




  
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RedSloth
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Jan 28, 2013 03:36 |  #189

Osiriz wrote in post #15542534 (external link)
...and rate button.
:rolleyes:

It is a great button!


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sploo
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Jan 28, 2013 03:42 |  #190

Osiriz wrote in post #15542534 (external link)
So Canonrumors just posted a "[CR2]-rumor" on what seems to be Canon's roadmap for 2013. The big MP body is not even mentioned in it.

A few months back there were lots of rumors floating around, but now it is suddenly all quiet about the big MP body. Was it all just wishful thinking?? Is Canon really going to let the D800 / D800E reign supreme for two years without answering?

In before the canonite knights in shining armor shows up:
Yes, the D800 sensor does kick Canon's sensors in every possible way (not just resolution).
No, I'm not a Nikon fanboy.
No, I don't wanna sell all my gear and move to Nikon.
Yes, Canon has better glass, ergonomics, live view and rate button.
:rolleyes:

I guess there's the issue that a high-res body would appeal largely to landscape shooters - for whom low ISO dynamic range is usually a big deal. Therefore if Canon were to release a high-res sensor, but hadn't fixed the banding issues, it might not be that well received. I've not heard any rumours along the lines of "Canon have a new process/plant producing sensors free of banding".


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Lowner
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Jan 28, 2013 06:19 |  #191

sploo wrote in post #15542577 (external link)
I guess there's the issue that a high-res body would appeal largely to landscape shooters - for whom low ISO dynamic range is usually a big deal. Therefore if Canon were to release a high-res sensor, but hadn't fixed the banding issues, it might not be that well received. I've not heard any rumours along the lines of "Canon have a new process/plant producing sensors free of banding".

You are right, a 50+ MP sensor but no improvement in DR, noise or banding would NOT be well received by this landscapist. Canon will have to be trying a lot harder to beat the D800E than just the headline mega pixel number. Together, Sony and Nikon have really made a step forward and I expect Canon to put some effort into their answer.


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gjl711
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Jan 28, 2013 07:18 |  #192

Lowner wrote in post #15542797 (external link)
You are right, a 50+ MP sensor but no improvement in DR, noise or banding would NOT be well received by this landscapist. Canon will have to be trying a lot harder to beat the D800E than just the headline mega pixel number. Together, Sony and Nikon have really made a step forward and I expect Canon to put some effort into their answer.

Totally agree.


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pyrojim
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Jan 28, 2013 10:31 |  #193

Lowner wrote in post #15542797 (external link)
You are right, a 50+ MP sensor but no improvement in DR, noise or banding would NOT be well received by this landscapist. Canon will have to be trying a lot harder to beat the D800E than just the headline mega pixel number. Together, Sony and Nikon have really made a step forward and I expect Canon to put some effort into their answer.

I suspect you have hobbiest landscape photographers in mind.

(1) people bracket expose their shots.

(2) landscape photographers are small business. All the fashion photographers demand high resolution. And when they can't get what they want, they rent medium format systems if they don't already own the backs.

(3) for landscapes, neither canon or Nikon come close to the Pentax with a 25mm F4...


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sploo
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Jan 28, 2013 15:13 |  #194

pyrojim wrote in post #15543463 (external link)
I suspect you have hobbiest landscape photographers in mind.

(1) people bracket expose their shots.

(2) landscape photographers are small business. All the fashion photographers demand high resolution. And when they can't get what they want, they rent medium format systems if they don't already own the backs.

(3) for landscapes, neither canon or Nikon come close to the Pentax with a 25mm F4...

(1) Yes, unless you have moving elements (wind blown trees, waves etc.). I certainly bracket (when things aren't moving), and have techniques in Photoshop that allow blending without too much hassle; such that it's an acceptable workaround - but I'd still like more DR from a single exposure.

(2) Not sure if we can make a sweeping statement about landscape shooters being a small business - as far as I'm aware, the 5D2 sold plenty of units to landscape guys. Landscapes may make less money than some other subjects, but I don't have data to confirm or deny that. Agree that fashion shooters with control over lighting would benefit from high resolution, but are probably less worried about DR.

(3) That's somewhat orthogonal to the argument, and is like advising someone considering a Ford or a Toyota that neither come close to a Ferrari. If someone is looking for a high-res 35mm DSLR body then a 645D is probably not what they're after (in terms of size, weight, and probably cost).


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Osiriz
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Jan 28, 2013 15:18 as a reply to  @ sploo's post |  #195

Ok, so let's say that it will take 12 - 18 more months for Canon to come up with new sensor tech, that can outperform the resolution and DR output of Nikon's exmor sensor.

By then, SoNikon might have an upgrade to their current sensor tech (or perhaps "the exmor 2"), ready to be released in a new camera.. So for Canon to 'truly beat' SoNikon in the "sensor race", they must not only outperform the D800, but also the next generation of sensor tech.

In order to be competitive, they also need to make the new sensor tech affordable, and not only placed inside an uber expensive 1D-type body.

I wish them luck. I really do.




  
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A 5D offering 46.1 MPs in a 1D shell
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