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Thread started 12 Oct 2012 (Friday) 03:34
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I need help with my storage and backup plan

 
ChadAndreo
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Oct 12, 2012 03:34 |  #1

I am currently looking to update my storage and backup plan since my old solution is no longer sufficient for my workload. I have spent the past few hours researching different solutions, but I am still unsure of what would work best for me. (Raid, Drobo, a bunch of external HDs with old content in a cabinet, etc )
Should I just stock up on more external HDs or Get something like this Raid (external link)and a 1.5GB OWC dual Mini Elite for video and call it a day?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

My current setup:
MacBook Pro
250GB SSD
750GB Partitioned (250GB SSD Backup + 500GB Media Storage which I use for my Photography Business)

My HDs:
OWC Mini Elite 500GB aka my "Video Working Projects Drive"
2TB Seagate GoFlex
3TB Seagate GoFlex aka My backup for everything

My current storage solution
Video:
- Project Files and Renders -> MBP SSD which is backed up hourly using CCC to my 750GB internal HD, OWC Mini and 2TB Seagate Backup HD
- Working Projects Files -> OWC Mini Elite
- Non-Current Video Storage -> Seagate 2TB which is backed up to my Seagate 3TB
Photos:
- Current Projects on my MBP internal 750GB HD.
- All photos stored on 2TB Seagate and Backed up on 3TB Seagate

What I am hoping to accomplish is:
2x Backup of all video footage in addition to my current working projects(which I would like to continue to have stored on a portable external HD for traveling purposes). Im thinking OWC Elite or Dual Elite.
2x Backup of all of my photography in addition to my current projects which is stored on my MBP internal storage drive.

Thanks


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RTPVid
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Oct 12, 2012 12:26 |  #2

A couple of general principles...


  1. RAID is not a backup (that is, one drive in the RAID array is not a backup of another drive in the RAID array). RAID is best thought of as redundancy (for maximizing uptime) rather than backup.

  2. Personally, I would not consider using an internal drive to backup another internal drive.

  3. Your backup strategy needs to account for such things as theft, fire, storm damage, etc. This means you need a secondary backup that is kept off-site.


In 1 and 2, there are too many single points of failure that will take out both your primary and your backup, some hardware, and some software.

My primary storage is on internal drives (5TB internal capacity for me). My primary backup is to external drives, presently attached via USB, but soon to be moved to a NAS. My secondary off-site backup is with a cloud service (CrashPlan for me). My backup application can be configured to keep versions of files and to keep copies of deleted files, with the number/age of versions and how long to keep deleted files being configurable. This means if I have a virus that causes damage, I can restore from backup, even if I don't discover all of the damage right away. It also means I can restore a file I deleted months ago, if need be. These last things are some things that a RAID, for example, cannot do, and is one of the reasons one drive in a RAID array should not be considered a backup of another.

If you have too much data, or your ISP meters your data, so that a cloud backup is not feasible, you should consider rotating your external drive backups to an off-site location.

Tom

  
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ChadAndreo
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Oct 12, 2012 15:04 |  #3

RTPVid wrote in post #15113176 (external link)
A couple of general principles...


  1. RAID is not a backup (that is, one drive in the RAID array is not a backup of another drive in the RAID array). RAID is best thought of as redundancy (for maximizing uptime) rather than backup.

  2. Personally, I would not consider using an internal drive to backup another internal drive.

  3. Your backup strategy needs to account for such things as theft, fire, storm damage, etc. This means you need a secondary backup that is kept off-site.


In 1 and 2, there are too many single points of failure that will take out both your primary and your backup, some hardware, and some software.

My primary storage is on internal drives (5TB internal capacity for me). My primary backup is to external drives, presently attached via USB, but soon to be moved to a NAS. My secondary off-site backup is with a cloud service (CrashPlan for me). My backup application can be configured to keep versions of files and to keep copies of deleted files, with the number/age of versions and how long to keep deleted files being configurable. This means if I have a virus that causes damage, I can restore from backup, even if I don't discover all of the damage right away. It also means I can restore a file I deleted months ago, if need be. These last things are some things that a RAID, for example, cannot do, and is one of the reasons one drive in a RAID array should not be considered a backup of another.

If you have too much data, or your ISP meters your data, so that a cloud backup is not feasible, you should consider rotating your external drive backups to an off-site location.

Thank You for your reply.

I also you crash plan for my offsite backup.
I am using a 2011 Macbook Pro which only has firewire and usb 2.0.
I thought with raids, you can have one platter backup to another and then I can remove it when full and replace it with a new one.


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RTPVid
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Oct 12, 2012 15:15 |  #4

ChadAndreo wrote in post #15113937 (external link)
...I thought with raids, you can have one platter backup to another and then I can remove it when full and replace it with a new one.

Since the second drive is a mirror of the first (I assume you are talking about that kind of RAID setup, so-called RAID 1), a couple of things:

  • The intent of RAID 1 is you can keep running off the first drive while you replace the second (presumably failed) drive.
  • The second drive is an exact copy of the first, so it will also have any data corruption issues the first drive has and will delete any file deleted from the first drive


You can't use a drive mirror RAID the way you suggest, since

  1. Both drives will fill at the same time, and
  2. A replacement drive will "immediately" be filled again as the still functioning drive is mirrored over to the replacement by the RAID controller.

Tom

  
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hollis_f
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Oct 13, 2012 05:06 |  #5

RTPVid wrote in post #15113176 (external link)

2. Personally, I would not consider using an internal drive to backup another internal drive.

Personally I would always, where possible, use an internal drive to backup another internal drive.

Why? Because it's so easy and fast. When I build my next desktop it'll have one internal drive, partitioned so that I can use it to mirror my boot SSD and my data-storing HDD. And it will do it automagically without any interference from me. So if either of the other drives should die I have a full backup ready to restore.

Will this be my only backup? Of course not, that would be silly to the extreme. But the other backups (NAS elsewhere in the house and eSATA to drives stored next door and in a different town) are slower and/or more hassle. But if the whole desktop catches fire or gets nicked then I can use them for a restore.


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ChadAndreo
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Oct 13, 2012 08:01 |  #6

hollis_f wrote in post #15116350 (external link)
Personally I would always, where possible, use an internal drive to backup another internal drive.

Why? Because it's so easy and fast. When I build my next desktop it'll have one internal drive, partitioned so that I can use it to mirror my boot SSD and my data-storing HDD. And it will do it automagically without any interference from me. So if either of the other drives should die I have a full backup ready to restore.

Will this be my only backup? Of course not, that would be silly to the extreme. But the other backups (NAS elsewhere in the house and eSATA to drives stored next door and in a different town) are slower and/or more hassle. But if the whole desktop catches fire or gets nicked then I can use them for a restore.

Thats exactly how I have it setup up too.
If the SSD fails, I can just boot from my 2nd internal HD.


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SequinMiner.com
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Oct 14, 2012 04:11 as a reply to  @ ChadAndreo's post |  #7

One thing to consider is if you wish to edit from your NAS. It's wonderful to have 3x redundancy, but when you have to pull an entire project and the assets back to the desktop to do any work...

We chose GTech 24tb which gives us the level of redundancy we wanted (in conjunction with off site and cloud storage) and more importantly allows us to Edit very heavy projects in Premiere and AfterEffects straight from the Gtech, no dragging necessary. Couldn't be happier.

If you have any questions you might try Gtech Direct - Super Friendly!!! I think the gals name is Michelle and knows what she's talking about. Then you should consider buying here https://www.videoguys.​com …ageSize=0&Page=​1&SortBy=1 (external link) Videoguys.com This guy ISNT exactly friendly but knows EVERYTHING there ever is, was, or will be. Good prices and constant specials as well. Just have a tough skin if you call ;)

If you have any questions just let me know.

Steven
www.Sequinminer.com (external link)
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Keyan
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Oct 14, 2012 10:23 |  #8

And in the event of Fire/theft/flood/plagu​e of locusts it is all gone anyway...

I use Mozy. I don't have to think about it then and they have good mobile apps to access your pics on the go.


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RTPVid
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Oct 14, 2012 10:56 |  #9

hollis_f wrote in post #15116350 (external link)
... Because it's so easy and fast. When I build my next desktop it'll have one internal drive, partitioned so that I can use it to mirror my boot SSD and my data-storing HDD. And it will do it automagically without any interference from me. So if either of the other drives should die I have a full backup ready to restore...

Actually, this is what a RAID 1 is for, maximizing uptime. Mirrored drives are quick to get back operational, but do not provide true backup for reasons already discussed.


Tom

  
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hollis_f
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Oct 14, 2012 12:09 |  #10

RTPVid wrote in post #15120634 (external link)
Actually, this is what a RAID 1 is for, maximizing uptime. Mirrored drives are quick to get back operational, but do not provide true backup for reasons already discussed.

Raid won't work for the situation I described, where two drives are backed up to one.


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hollis_f
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Oct 14, 2012 12:13 |  #11

Keyan wrote in post #15120501 (external link)
And in the event of Fire/theft/flood/plagu​e of locusts it is all gone anyway....

Er, nope. One of my backup drives lives in a fire safe, in a friend's office, in a different town. Once a month it gets swapped with a current backup.

Keyan wrote in post #15120501 (external link)
I use Mozy. I don't have to think about it then and they have good mobile apps to access your pics on the go.

And how long will it take you to restore a terabyte of data over the interwebs?


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RTPVid
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Oct 14, 2012 17:12 |  #12

hollis_f wrote in post #15120900 (external link)
Raid won't work for the situation I described, where two drives are backed up to one.

Yes, but for the cost of one drive, RAID would be the technically superior solution for near-bumpless continuing to work in the event of drive failure.


Tom

  
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RTPVid
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Oct 14, 2012 17:34 |  #13

hollis_f wrote in post #15120911 (external link)
...And how long will it take you to restore a terabyte of data over the interwebs?

I agree with this point. Cloud backup should not be your primary backup unless your situation will allow for weeks (or more) for a full restore. This works fine, usually, for home users who just want safe storage, but not for anyone who can't wait.

I use the cloud as a secondary backup, basically providing my "off-site" storage. I am willing to accept the risk of a long restore in the event of complete destruction (or theft, etc.) of both my main storage and my primary backup. Some of this is me recognizing my own limitations... what I mean is that I know that I would not adequately keep up with an off-site system that required me to physically move drives on a regular basis. Too much built-in procrastination in my personality... :o So, for me, the cloud's risks are lower than the certainty that any off-site backup plan I have to maintain would be months old if I actually ever needed it... :(

Although restore will proceed faster than the backup for most people, who have faster download speeds than upload speeds.


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ChadAndreo
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Oct 14, 2012 22:56 |  #14

Ok. I am starting to get a better understanding of raids and NAS systems. The only thing I have not been able to find a answer on dealing with raids is, in Raid-1(drive 1 being main and drive 2 being the mirror) or any other raid setup, can I remove drive 2 in the raid setup and move that to a secure location and add another drive(I will call it drive 3) and have the raid array/enclosure mirror drive 1 to drive 3?
Also, are there any other benefits to a 4 bay raid setup besides storage space?


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RTPVid
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Oct 15, 2012 13:11 |  #15

ChadAndreo wrote in post #15123292 (external link)
Ok. I am starting to get a better understanding of raids and NAS systems. The only thing I have not been able to find a answer on dealing with raids is, in Raid-1(drive 1 being main and drive 2 being the mirror) or any other raid setup, can I remove drive 2 in the raid setup and move that to a secure location and add another drive(I will call it drive 3) and have the raid array/enclosure mirror drive 1 to drive 3?

Yes, you can; ("Hot swap" is a hardware issue not directly linked to RAID, so you need to check that feature before you buy. But, you can "cold swap" - i.e. shut down, swap drives, start up.)

But, all this does is save a "moment in time" copy, since your new drive will "immediately" become just a copy of the old drive and go from there.

ChadAndreo wrote in post #15123292 (external link)
Also, are there any other benefits to a 4 bay raid setup besides storage space?

The various RAID configurations can become more space efficient with multiple drives. If all you are doing is simple mirroring (RAID 1), then a 4 bay enclosure will hold the logical equivalent of 2 drives, each with a mirror. If, OTOH, you are actually trying to maximize up-time (rather than create drive mirrors), you can use other RAID configurations. For example, a 4-drive RAID 5 setup would have 3 drives of storage capacity and could tolerate the failure on any 1 drive and still remain operational. So, say your 4 bay enclosure has 4 2TB drives in a RAID 5 setup. This would be a single logical 6TB drive. Those same 4 drives would be 2 logical 2TB drives (4TB total) in a RAID 1 setup.


Tom

  
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