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Thread started 12 Oct 2012 (Friday) 14:35
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DxOMark score for EOS 650D (T4i) Out: same score as the EOS 20D from 2004

 
JohnThomas
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Oct 14, 2012 08:44 |  #16

If canon used Sony sensors, would our (canon) images look like nikon images?

Would canon and nikon all of a sudden have the same DxO scores, or does internal software and processing play a big role?


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Rush87
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Oct 14, 2012 08:52 |  #17

996gt2 wrote in post #15118860 (external link)
I'm sorry, but this is simply untrue.

Yes, your statement may have some truth with regard to Canon, but that is only because Canon has been so stagnant in sensor design. Compare the DXOMark scores of the Nikon D70 and D7000 and you'll instantly see that there is a huge improvement.

I did not look into Nikon and as chrissp said, is it because of Sony? Was the D70 sensor from Sony?




  
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996gt2
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Oct 14, 2012 10:37 |  #18

Rush87 wrote in post #15120256 (external link)
I did not look into Nikon and as chrissp said, is it because of Sony? Was the D70 sensor from Sony?

D70 sensor was also made by Sony.

If you look at the trend from 2004-2006 to now, just about every manufacturer except Canon has made huge strides in sensor performance. Sure, many of them are using Sony sensors, but that begs the question of...why is Canon not doing the same if they cannot make a sensor that is nearly as good in terms of factors like dynamic range?

Olympus E-P1 (2009) vs E-M5 (2012). The E-M5 is a micro 4/3 camera that outperforms the latest Rebel T4i in sensor performance while having a smaller sensor:

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Pentax K10D (2006) vs K-5 (2010/11):
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Sony A100 (2006) vs A580 (2011):
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While Nikon has used Sony sensors in many of their APS-C cameras, they've only recently switched to using Sony sensors in their full-frame cameras. Here, you can also see an upward trend from Nikon's first FF camera (D3) to the recent ones like the D800. With Canon, not so much.

Nikon D3 (2008) vs D3X (2009) vs D800E (2012):
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Canon 5D (2005/2006) vs 5D II (2009) vs 5D III (2012):
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JohnThomas wrote in post #15120236 (external link)
If canon used Sony sensors, would our (canon) images look like nikon images?

Would canon and nikon all of a sudden have the same DxO scores, or does internal software and processing play a big role?

If Canon switched to Sony sensors, then the DxO scores would be quite close.

Many manufacturers use Sony sensors. For example, the Pentax K-5 and Nikon D7000 use the same 16MP Sony sensor, and the two score very similarly in DxOMark. Sure, internal processing may play a role, but it's not a significant one.

chrissp wrote in post #15119561 (external link)
Might be fair to say Nikon's advancement is due to Sony. Who knows, if Nikon had kept using their own sensor, they would still be behind Canon today? Nikon made the decision to use third party sensor probably because they did not have any breakthrough in their own tech. Canon has been too proud to do so, or maybe they have too much belief in their own R&D. Could well cause their own downfall in time to come.

Nikon, along with most of the other big DSLR manufacturers, have actually been using Sony sensors for quite a while. Two examples from about 8 years ago: the Nikon D70 used a Sony CCD and the D2X used a Sony CMOS sensor. Canon is the only one which has stuck to in-house sensor design/production and now it seems like they cannot quite compete with Sony.


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The ­ Fox
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Oct 14, 2012 12:30 |  #19

I always laugh at DxO scores. They score the D800 higher in dynamic range and in color accuracy higher then a 16 bit medium format camera. This is a joke, I am sorry but anyone that thinks that this is true needs to tell all the high level shooters that they need to trade up to a 35mm form DSLR. I shoot regularly with a MF camera for commercial clients and they deliver the image that is a step above that of any DSLR. Many of my clients would laugh and fire me for wasting their time with a DSLR when I need the color and dynamic range that MF can give me.

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Echo ­ Johnson
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Oct 14, 2012 13:36 |  #20

ZachOly wrote in post #15116671 (external link)
I don't know how anyone can their results seriously anymore.

This...

The Fox wrote in post #15120981 (external link)
I always laugh at DxO scores. They score the D800 higher in dynamic range and in color accuracy higher then a 16 bit medium format camera.

...and this and...

...this https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1175617.


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Oct 14, 2012 13:43 |  #21

DXO is like Ken Rockwell ... the more we read them and quote them, the more rubbish they come up with. You want to make a difference? just stop visiting their website ^_^


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tkbslc
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Oct 14, 2012 14:10 |  #22

JohnThomas wrote in post #15120236 (external link)
If canon used Sony sensors, would our (canon) images look like nikon images?

Would canon and nikon all of a sudden have the same DxO scores, or does internal software and processing play a big role?

Compare NIkon D7000, Pentax K-5 and Sony A57 for the answer to that one.


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996gt2
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Oct 14, 2012 15:05 |  #23

The Fox wrote in post #15120981 (external link)
I always laugh at DxO scores. They score the D800 higher in dynamic range and in color accuracy higher then a 16 bit medium format camera. This is a joke, I am sorry but anyone that thinks that this is true needs to tell all the high level shooters that they need to trade up to a 35mm form DSLR. I shoot regularly with a MF camera for commercial clients and they deliver the image that is a step above that of any DSLR. Many of my clients would laugh and fire me for wasting their time with a DSLR when I need the color and dynamic range that MF can give me.

Nick

I think you should do a little reading on how DxO does their testing. The things in your post above are opinion, not the results of empirical testing, which is what DxO has done.

Their results are no joke. Whether you choose to accept them or not is your decision.

tkbslc wrote in post #15121294 (external link)
Compare NIkon D7000, Pentax K-5 and Sony A57 for the answer to that one.

Incorrect. The A57 should not be included in that comparison because its fixed translucent mirror creates a 1/3 stop light loss to the sensor, and thus negatively impacts the results.

D7000 vs K5 vs Sony A580 is the more appropriate comparison. All 3 use the same Sony 16.2MP sensor, but the different processing on each camera leads to a slight difference in scores.

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tkbslc
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Oct 14, 2012 17:29 |  #24

The sensor is still the same, regardless of the translucent mirror. You might get lower shutter speeds at the same ISO, but the mirror has the same impact as using a smaller aperture.


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GooseberryVisuals
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Oct 14, 2012 17:30 |  #25

If the results actually translated into real world differences, we'd all be shooting Nikon.




  
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tkbslc
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Oct 14, 2012 17:30 |  #26

996gt2 wrote in post #15121478 (external link)
I think you should do a little reading on how DxO does their testing. The things in your post above are opinion, not the results of empirical testing, which is what DxO has done.

Their results are no joke. Whether you choose to accept them or not is your decision.

Nobody questions their methods. They question how their methods apply to actual photographs.


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RTPVid
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Oct 14, 2012 17:51 |  #27

tkbslc wrote in post #15121946 (external link)
Nobody questions their methods. They question how their methods apply to actual photographs.

Basically, they don't apply to the real world very much. Have you ever checked out their completely laughable lens performance ratings?


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watt100
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Oct 14, 2012 17:56 |  #28

Shadowblade wrote in post #15119630 (external link)
Funny how other people who actually tests the sensors comes up with *exactly the same results* (with consistent variations depending on the chosen cut-offs of 'acceptable performance').

funny how that's so wrong !
http://www.popphoto.co​m …011/01/lab-test-canon-60d (external link)




  
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Shadowblade
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Oct 14, 2012 17:59 |  #29

They weren't even testing the same thing there.

Also, it's funny how the only real complaints about DXO come from Canon forums, and only really since the Exmor (not so many complaints when the 5D2 came out). Not from Nikon or Sony users. I'd bet most of these complaints will stop if the rumoured, new 46MP body turns out to have higher DR than the Exmor.




  
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watt100
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Oct 14, 2012 18:02 |  #30

Shadowblade wrote in post #15122082 (external link)
They weren't even testing the same thing there.

comparing 60D with Nikon D7000
Canon easily beats the Nikon 7000 in ISO performance
WTF ??????????????




  
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DxOMark score for EOS 650D (T4i) Out: same score as the EOS 20D from 2004
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