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FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Sports 
Thread started 21 Oct 2012 (Sunday) 18:03
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still not happy with the results

 
Ltdave
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Oct 21, 2012 18:03 |  #1

i never shot hockey until last year. i started with a 550d and 55-250 fSlow.8...

i added a 70-200 f2.8L IS USM and played around with the settings (ISO, M, Tv, shutter speeds and apertures) and got some satisfactory images for the local newspaper (and my local teams FB page and such)...

this spring/summer i moved up to a 7d primarily for the size (better ergonomics) and the customization available with the controls. the 8fps really is lost on me but i do enjoy the faster CF cards and the like...

i use center point focus only, One Shot and the AI selections and was constantly second-guessing my lens. it looks like i have the lens MFA'd pretty close to right but boy there seems to be a lot of noise...

i run ISO at 3200, 1/640 and f2.8-f3.5 as applicable...

im brand new (as in still running a trial version) at LR but here are 3 from one of my latest games. the length of rink shots were made at 1/640 and f4.0 because of the 1.4x II converter on the 70-200...

am i going to have to go FF to get nice clean speckle-free images? ive not cropped these any since i dont know LR enough yet to do so; theyve only had a little bit of saturation, exposure and contrast tweaking...

can some one, better at PP and examining take a look and let me know what i need to do to match most of the OTHER hockey shots here in regards to sharpness, color and the like? i dont usually shoot through the glass because my local barn's glass is really marked up resulting in pretty poor IQ...

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dont worry about the composition or the artistic quality of the shots. thats not currently my concern...

thanks



  
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divmedic4
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Oct 21, 2012 18:29 |  #2

LtDave I shoot a 7D as well. I have noticed it seems to be pretty noisy at ISO 3200 but also fairly easy to clean up to what is acceptable to me in LR3 so I am sure LR4 is as capable if not more so. In LR3, the noise reduction slider is in the Details sub-menu. When I get ready to apply it, I zoom 1:1 and lock in on an area where the sweater meets the head. All I do then is pull the slider until I am comfortable with how it looks. I hope this helps!


Tom
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Daship
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Oct 21, 2012 18:49 |  #3

They don really scream noise to me, but they do scream out of focus. I think the white on white is making it hard on the camera practice on the other teams colors.




  
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Czbrat271
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Oct 21, 2012 19:33 |  #4

The noise by the 7D is why I upgraded to the 5D MKIII. With hockey, if you are shooting through the glass, make sure the glass is clean, or your camera could focus on the crap on the glass. I always shoot RAW, and edit the image in Photoshop. Also I read up on the noise of the 7D, and they said to make sure your histogram should be shifted to the right, or slightly overexposed. This improves the noise. BTW this was shot with 7D with 70-200 f/2.8. With hockey you shouldn't need the 1.4 Ext. You lose a stop of light too. Also what also improved my shots, is I purchased a white balance disc. Really improved my shots as well.


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ajaffe
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Oct 22, 2012 01:54 |  #5

Don't sway from AI Servo when shooting anything that moves. AI Focus is terrible and One Shot is for stationary objects.

7D noise is terrible in my opinion at high ISOs. For some reason I never liked the files they produced when compared to one of the 1D3/4 bodies I had running at the same event. With that said though, your photos are out of focus.


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Colchester
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Oct 22, 2012 08:34 |  #6

LTDave, get rid of the extender and try shooting full manual mode at 1/500 ISO 3200 and f/2.8. If you have enough light in your rink, try a higher shutter speed. Set your WB to auto. Zooming and cropping should not be an issue as the files are quite large from the 7D. Keep your centre point focus on the faces as much as possible. Not sure why you are using One Shot for action.

Myra
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Ltdave
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Oct 22, 2012 15:42 as a reply to  @ Colchester's post |  #7

ive moved from the one shot back when i left the 550d and went to the 7d unless i accidentally changed it and didnt catch it...

the glass is not TERRIBLE (compared to what ive seen!!!) but its far from pristine. with that said, ive avoided any focus issues because of it...

i decided to try the extender this time since i was shooting from the 'upper level' so to speak to avoid shooting through the glass and to get some offensive rushes. that provided some player separation...

without the extender im shooting f2.8 to f3.2 at 1/640th. thats with 3200 ISO...

on White Balance, i use a custom setting from the ice, shot from ice level before the game. ive shot in Auto but the lighting is Mercury Vapor and its given me some funky tints at time with that setting...

if theyre out of focus, then its either the lens or the camera. i understand the whole relationship between focal length, aperture, distance to subject etc BUT my 17-55 f2.8 is TACK SHARP in every instance of shooting. im going to have to look for that thread regarding the 7d and focus issues... ive hit the zoom slider and on these and other shots (of immobile objects) i see no difference in the 'focus' but these are certainly "pebble-ly" in appearance...




  
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ajaffe
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Oct 24, 2012 13:36 |  #8

I am still confused, are you using one shot AF or ai servo AF?


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benamen
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Oct 24, 2012 14:07 as a reply to  @ ajaffe's post |  #9

LtDave: I would ask first how does the 70-200 work outside of the rink? Need to know if it is functioning alright for other action sports.

Check to make sure your settings are correct. A1 Servo is on. Center point focus, evaluative metering.

If it works well in other environments than we can move on. If not you may need to send the lens to Canon for calibration.

Now you should begin testing. I would shoot warmups in a penalty box or bench area, someplace without glass. Shoot at other lengths besides 200mm and see how they look. Then shoot at 200mm and check again. If all is still good then add your 1.4x and see how the shots appear. May want to try a monopod to make sure it's not operator movement causing the softness. If when you add the 1.4x you notice the problem you may want to micro adjust your lens and extender. All still good then try through the glass. I usually clean the glass as best I can with a cleaner and magic eraser. Make sure you have the lens very close to the glass. I use a rubber hood and keep it in contact with the glass. Now check things again. Good Luck!

Ben




  
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burnet44
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Oct 24, 2012 15:33 |  #10

back button focus
if it hasnt been mentioned
made a huge difference in mine


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Ltdave
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Oct 24, 2012 17:52 |  #11

benamen wrote in post #15164050 (external link)
LtDave: I would ask first how does the 70-200 work outside of the rink? Need to know if it is functioning alright for other action sports. i posted a link to some shots i took last night. f2.8 and f5.6 both at 70 and 200, on four different subjects at different distances. id say regardless of environment it sucks...

Check to make sure your settings are correct. A1 Servo is on. Center point focus, evaluative metering. M, AI servo (now. i had been using single shot but changed some time ago), Center Focus, Evaluative and or the one with the spot and partial or just partial...

If it works well in other environments than we can move on. If not you may need to send the lens to Canon for calibration. it doesnt. see previous mention of posting from last night. ill have to look for the thread...

Now you should begin testing. I would shoot warmups in a penalty box or bench area, someplace without glass. Shoot at other lengths besides 200mm and see how they look. Then shoot at 200mm and check again. i usually shoot over the glass next to the penalty box. when i shoot the games im from 70 to 135 (indicated) usually. sometimes i go to 200 but since im right at center ice, i dont need to do so much from that point...If all is still good then add your 1.4x and see how the shots appear. i only used the 1.4x on these pics here since i was shooting from above the rink/the length of the rink on some of them... May want to try a monopod to make sure it's not operator movement causing the softness. these were shot with a monopod... If when you add the 1.4x you notice the problem you may want to micro adjust your lens and extender. All still good then try through the glass. I usually clean the glass as best I can with a cleaner and magic eraser. Make sure you have the lens very close to the glass. I use a rubber hood and keep it in contact with the glass. i dont usually shoot through the glass unless im right down behind the goalie and next to the goal judge. in that case ive got my 17-55 f2.8 on-board. it doesnt have these same issues... Now check things again. Good Luck!

Ben

here is the thread with the images from last night... https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1241007

commonly used settings M, f2.8-3.2, 1/640, 3200 ISO...




  
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chrisbergmann
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Oct 26, 2012 18:05 |  #12

I agree about noise on the 7d at 3200 ISO compared to other bodies. So much so that I stopped using it for indoor sports/games at night. Try Center point expansion, personally I've had better results with that rather then just center point. Other then that its a great camera.


Canon 1DX, 1D IV, 50mm 1.2, 24-70 2.8, 85mm 1.8, 400mm 2.8 IS, 24-105, 70-200 2.8 IS, 1.4TCII, 2xTCII

  
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Brain ­ Mechanic
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Oct 26, 2012 18:14 |  #13
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if theyre out of focus, then its either the lens or the camera

If I had a dollar every time someone posts the same thing around here....


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burnet44
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Oct 26, 2012 23:42 |  #14

if I did I could afford those cadys's lol


Canon 70D Gripped, Canon 1DII, 7D2 Canon gripped 70-200 2.8 ISM II, Canon 50 1.8, Sigma 17-50 2.8, Canon 400 5.6 on loan, Canon 1.4 TC, Canon 550 EX flash
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Ltdave
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Oct 27, 2012 21:10 |  #15

Brain Mechanic wrote in post #15173510 (external link)
If I had a dollar every time someone posts the same thing around here....

well, if the focus style selection is right and the selected focus point is on the players chest or face, then how could it be anything else?




  
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still not happy with the results
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