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Thread started 30 Oct 2012 (Tuesday) 23:10
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Cross-type focus points and other specs?

 
Yogi ­ Bear
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Oct 31, 2012 16:26 as a reply to  @ post 15191820 |  #16

Yogi Bear wrote in post #15191712 (external link)
Last time that I checked, the T3i had a pretty good array of buttons to choose from to make adjustments, not like a Nikon D3100 for example. What function is it that you are concerned about "digging through a menu" on the T3i?

I just checked the reviews for the T3i/600D and 60D on DP Review. The T3i/600D has dedicated buttons for WB, AF mode, Picture Style, Drive mode, and ISO. It lacks a dedicated Metering Mode button. On the other hand, the 60D has buttons for AF mode, Drive mode, ISO and Metering mode. The 60D LACKS dedicated buttons for Picture Style and WB. So, as far as "digging through menus" is concerned, the 60D has FEWER dedicated buttons than the T3i/600D and will require MORE use of the menus or the "Q" button.


Canon EOS 7D | EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM | EF-S 55-250mm f/4.0-5.6 IS |
EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM | 250D | EF-S 10-22 mm f/3.5-4.5 USM | 580 EX II |

  
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apersson850
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Oct 31, 2012 17:23 as a reply to  @ Yogi Bear's post |  #17

I think that what most people meant is that the 600D doesn't have dedicated buttons for anything of this, except ISO, but then you can't see the ISO setting adjacent to the dedicated button, since the 600D doesn't have any display on top. You either have to look at the back or through the viewfinder. That works as well, but is still features missing, compared to a 60D, for example.

What it does have is arrow buttons that also serve as buttons for WB, AF, picture styles and drive modes. But then, as I wrote before, when you use the arrow keys for immediate selection of AF points, a task which is fulfilled by the joystick on the bigger brothers of the 600D, you have to watch your timing when using these shared buttons, or they do something else than you expect them to do.

The 60D can control two slave flash groups through its internal flash. I don't think the 600D can do this, right? The 60D is also quite a bit quicker in reaction to the trigger button, as well as having a shorter viewfinder blackout. When it comes to continuous shooting, the 60D's buffer depth is quite a bit larger, in spite of being 50% quicker than the 600D.

So there are indeed several differences when it comes to capabilities for these cameras, even if some of them are such that you'll not notice within the scope of a quick comparison at the store's desk, or maybe not even within the first months of use. Several of the differences are mainly noticeable if you do like me, shoot quite a bit of action. But if you don't, then you can often get along with a P&S, or even a decent phone, unless you are iffy about the absolute image quality of your pictures. But if you are, you are probably looking at larger sensor sizes anyway.


Anders

  
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wayne.robbins
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Oct 31, 2012 18:20 |  #18

Naraly wrote in post #15189189 (external link)
I still don't fully understand some terms for DSLRs. How much of a difference does having several cross-type focus points make? Let's say, 9 vs 1 (comparing t4i to another DSLR). Also, can the human eye detect the screen resolution difference between 1,040k dots vs 920k dots? The website that I got that information from states the 1,040k dot screen resolution makes it easier to tell if an image is really in focus... Is it that big of a difference? Would the one with higher screen resolution win over the other one just for that?

And for the T4i users, is it true that although the T4i offers 12,800 ISO, the highest it can go to produce a good image quality without much noise is 722 ISO, so anything above that would create a lot of noise? (I'm comparing it to a different one that can go to 1,183 ISO and still produce a minimum noise).

Finally... I found these comparisons online between the 60D and the T3I. Are these images accurate for the capability of each camera, or was there some flaw? Because to my eye, in those images the T3i and Nikon D5100 really excel over the 60D, especially the shots of the water. I feel a little disappointed in the color and contrast quality of the 60D from those images...
http://www.cameralabs.​com …S_60D/sample_im​ages.shtml (external link)
http://www.cameralabs.​com …l_T3i/sample_im​ages.shtml (external link)

The 9 all cross type af points comes into play - more so when using AI servo mode to track a moving subject- with all points selected. As far as DSLR's are concerned- I started with a t1i- and going to a 7D was night and days difference- shooting RC helis.
The T4i has f/5.6 for all- and f/2.8 for the center cross type AF point.. F/2.8 sensitivity only comes into play with f/2.8 or faster lenses. Cameras like the 1000d,1100D, (t3 )- have only f/5.6 sensitive center- and the outer af points are sensitive either horizontally or vertically-- depending upon which one you are using. Tracking moving subjects- it makes a huge difference. Static shots- in One Shot- not so much. The Rebels prior to the t4i- had only a cross type for the center- and the outer points are either sensitive horizontally or vertically- depending upon which one you were looking at.

Not all AF systems are equal.. Some are better than others.. Some are more accurate than others.. Some in this thread have eluded to why- so I am not going to repeat.. Lensrental did a comparison of some recent bodies- and to me, it was no surprise that the 1DX and 5D3 had the best scores.. Next up- the 1D mark IV. What was surprising- the t4i shared the next best score ( with the 1DsIII ). .. Other cameras- like the 7D did worse than I would hope for.. Real life- I would rate my collection the same way- 5D3/ T4i/ 7D/ T1i... I think a lot of it is driven by Canon working to improve their AF systems- and the later models are seeing the benefits from that research.

LCD Screens; Yes- one can tell the difference between 1 million dots and lesser amounts.. If you took the same image and displayed them on both at the same time- the one with the more dots will generally look better. If you were looking between 1/2 million and 1 million or 1/2 million and 1/4 million- it's even more apparent. Usually the LCD with the more dots is also physically larger- less squinting... But LCD screens are notorious for telling if an image is in focus- because the camera automatically adds sharpness to the image on the LCD. Larger screens make it easier to see- but only when one puts it onto a computer do they really know if the image is in focus 100%.

722 ISO and 1183 ISO makes no sense. The t4i's native iso's goes up to 12,800 and can be expanded to 25,600. Native iso- mileage varies- in my experience- most of the time- you can use the camera up to about 1 stop less ( divide the iso by 2 )- so for the t4i- I find that ISO 6400 is OK'ish.. 12,800 usually not so much.. A lot depends upon if you are displaying for the web, or printing- and if printing- how big.. Generally, you can resize to smaller sizes ( for web ) and you might be able to get usable shots. Noise reduction thru software might also help... Shoot raw... Find Lightrules guides here on POTN on how to deal with noise....

Some will tout the usefulness of the extra controls on the more pro bodies- like the 60D/7D/5D series... Rarely do I use the upper LCD... I don't sit there changing a lot of settings - so in my opinion, ymmv as to whether or not the extra controls are worthwhile or not. the t4i- for example- has the touch screen- which can be quite useful and usable way to quickly change settings.. Now- having a 7D and a t4i- well- gosh, I do wish it had the second wheel !...


EOS 5D III, EOS 7D,EOS Rebel T4i, Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS II, Canon 24-105L, Canon 18-135 IS STM, 1.4x TC III, 2.0x TC III, Σ 50mm f/1.4, Σ 17-50 OS, Σ 70-200 OS, Σ 50-500 OS, Σ 1.4x TC, Σ 2.0x TC, 580EXII(3), Canon SX-40, Canon S100
Fond memories: Rebel T1i, Canon 18-55 IS, Canon 55-250 IS, 18-135 IS (Given to a good home)...

  
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rrblint
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Oct 31, 2012 21:57 |  #19

apersson850 wrote in post #15192105 (external link)
The 60D can control two slave flash groups through its internal flash. I don't think the 600D can do this, right?

Anders, thanks for your brilliant explanation of the sensitivity and accuracy of cross-type and non-cross-type Af sensors...Very clearly explained!

The 600D does have the ability to wirelessly control up to two groups of slaves and also does allow A:B ratio control of these slave groups.


Mark

  
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apersson850
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Nov 01, 2012 03:15 as a reply to  @ rrblint's post |  #20

I have read about the AF results for the 7D too. Perhaps it suffers a bit from the same issue that plauged the 1D Mark III; With the ambition to make a very fast and responsive AF system (which it is), absolute accuracy suffered a bit. Then there's probably variation between samples too. Why else would we need calibration and micro adjust?

I'm pretty happy with the AF performance provided with my 7D bodies.


Anders

  
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Naraly
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Nov 01, 2012 21:04 |  #21

Answers are immensely appreciated, thanks to all contributing! I just finished reading all of your answers and i'm learning a great deal about this. And also, i'm going to stop looking at snapsort for getting comparison information!

I went to Best Buy the other day to hold each in my hand, waiting for that moment so many of you speak or where the camera feels just right in my hands. Well, the security piece that attaches each camera [to I don't know what] was pretty heavy and just made each camera feel akward in my hands...
What I noticed I really liked about the 60D are those extra dials, I can definitely see myself getting used to that and finding it very convenient. I didn't really try out the T3i because I assume it's mostly the same at the T2i (which I've already had) except for the swivel screen. The Canon's competitor I wanted to try (Nikon D5100) was unfortunetally not charged, so I could not really do much.

I've looked at the "60D United" and "T3i United" threads here and the photos are of course great and when each camera is in good hands I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between quality of two images of the same subject. So I guess my dilemma is mostly what I'm getting for the money, since there is approximately a $400+ difference between the 60D and T3i. And I still don't get why a 60D is more expensive than a D5100 if [I think] it's newer than the 60D:confused:.

Does anyone have a link of somewhere I could compare images from any of these cameras side by side? I mean, with it being the same subject and environmental factors? I must sound so picky, but this is how everything is for me when it comes to anything over $100, that's why I haven't purchased anything in so long:mad:.

If I use the Canon Loyalty program how much could I get a 60D with kit lens for? And is the kit lens the way to go? I have in mind a couple of lenses I want to purchase eventually, depending on what subjects I find myself shooting the most.

I need to find a camera store where I can hold each without them being tied down:cool:.



Cheers,
Nora

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jhayesvw
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Nov 01, 2012 22:30 as a reply to  @ Naraly's post |  #22

Yogi Bear wrote in post #15191924 (external link)
I just checked the reviews for the T3i/600D and 60D on DP Review. The T3i/600D has dedicated buttons for WB, AF mode, Picture Style, Drive mode, and ISO. It lacks a dedicated Metering Mode button. On the other hand, the 60D has buttons for AF mode, Drive mode, ISO and Metering mode. The 60D LACKS dedicated buttons for Picture Style and WB. So, as far as "digging through menus" is concerned, the 60D has FEWER dedicated buttons than the T3i/600D and will require MORE use of the menus or the "Q" button.

in a contolled environment you will not see a difference between the pics from a t3i and a 60d.
its in the use and speed of the camera that the 60d will start to pull ahead.
I went from a t1i to my 60d and its AMAZING.
the rebels require multiple buttons and taking your eyes from the viewfinder to swap many settings. the 60d not so much.
although the t4i is a serious contender. it has the same AF system as the 60d, probably slightly better high ISO ability and it has the same shooting frames per second (but a much smaller buffer IIRC).

so, what im trying to say is that in real life the 60d will start to show why its worth/costs more.



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TSchrief
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Nov 02, 2012 02:25 |  #23
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Yogi Bear wrote in post #15191782 (external link)
Granted, the second control dial is a major difference, but as far as buttons go, I contend that the T3i has all of the major functions covered, just as a 60D.

I can take any picture with my Yashica FX-3 Super 2000 film camera that you can take with your T3i. It has NO buttons or switches, not even an ON/OFF switch, but it does all the functions of any modern DSLR: adjustable film speed, aperture control, shutter speed control and the like. It will even fire as fast as I can wind and click. Does being able to take the same shot mean that it too, is equivalent to the 60D? BTW, I have one of those, also. They really are vastly different cameras. Just like the T3i and the 60D.


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TSchrief
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Nov 02, 2012 02:30 |  #24
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Posted in wrong thread. Sorry.


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Cross-type focus points and other specs?
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