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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 30 Oct 2012 (Tuesday) 12:45
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Venue wants to use my photo in their ad.

 
Christopher ­ Steven ­ b
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Oct 30, 2012 12:45 |  #1

I haven't quite thought this through yet, and I'm curious about what others think.

In short, I shot < this > (external link) wedding a couple of months ago, the venue loved the resultant photos and added me to their site as a (not necessarily 'the') recommended photographer with a link to my site.

Today they're asking for permission to use 2 images in an advert they're placing in a wedding mag. with a fairly large circulation, and they seem to be offering naught much more than to hand out my business cards at their venue.

My initial thoughts are that this is obviously commercial use and not editorial and so (1) this kind of publishing is the least likely to generate business for me--even if I require an attribution, who would ever look at an advert and write down and look up the photographer ? (2) I should require payment for their use.

The reason why it isn't so clear to me what I should do is because I feel like I've lucked in to a decent relationship with a venue and I'm concerned about cutting it off by being 'all business' about the use of the images.

Another consideration is that I would possibly have used some of these images in an editorial way (shop around to the magazine itself, e.g.); and by allowing their use in an ad, I might be stepping on my own ability to do so.

Any thoughts ?



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Chris
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Oct 30, 2012 12:58 |  #2

I think I would be inclinded to offer two images if I felt it would benefit my relationship with a venue that has influence over future brides.


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ZXDrew
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Oct 30, 2012 12:58 |  #3

Have you considered asking them to make you "The" recommended photographer on thier site and on the property?


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Littlejon ­ Dsgn
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Oct 30, 2012 13:01 |  #4

Coming from someone that was shopping venues and photographers over the last year, after picking a venue the first photographers site we visited and called was the guys whos business card was handed to us by the venue.

You might ask to be listed on their website as their prefered photographer with no others listed for (x) number of months.

Might as for token payment along with having your business card be the only photography related card handed out by the venue.

Just some ideas, I would think having a strong bond with a venue could be worth more then payment (hope I dont get flammed to bad for saying that). How many bookings make it worth not getting paid up front for the photos?

Again while the wife was shopping, the cards we were handed were the first ones we checked out, flowers, cake, horse drawn buggy, insurance .... you name it they had a card for us from their recomended businesses, and about 2/3rds of the outside businesses we used came from their recomendations.




  
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Oct 30, 2012 13:04 |  #5

Chris wrote in post #15187031 (external link)
I think I would be inclinded to offer two images if I felt it would benefit my relationship with a venue that has influence over future brides.

+1. It can't hurt, can only benefit, and shows that you are "easy to do business with."


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sspellman
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Oct 30, 2012 13:54 |  #6

Providing the photos without direct payment would be worth it if you can provide a glossy brochure or other promo to the venue and get a commitment that they will refer you. I would also make a beautiful large poster of your photos of the venue to be hung in the meeting room where they meet clients.

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nathancarter
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Oct 30, 2012 14:28 |  #7

You might also use fotoquote or one of the other licensing/pricing tools out there to determine the industry-standard value of the photos. Show them that your photo DOES have value, and you're trading them that value in photos, in exchange for being their preferred/recommended photographer.


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zerovision
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Oct 30, 2012 14:36 |  #8

A good relationship is far more valuable than the time it took to produce the image(s). Doing good things is easily forgotten, but one wrong thing and they'll never forget.

I recommend you cooperate in every way possible.


  
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DunnoWhen
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Oct 30, 2012 14:45 as a reply to  @ zerovision's post |  #9

OP. have the bride and groom signed a contract that would allow you to do this?


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Christopher ­ Steven ­ b
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Oct 30, 2012 14:56 |  #10

@chris - I agree
@ZxDrew - That's probably the easiest thing to negotiate about. Good idea.
@Littlejon - thanks for the even anecdotal evidence of the value of having the venue pass on a card. 1 booking would make it worthwhile to me to offset any usage fees.
@sapearl - true.
@Scott - would you charge them for the poster or consider it sufficiently advertising for your services ?
@Nathan - brilliant, that makes sense.
@zerovision - thanks.
@DunnoWhen - I've asked their permission, of course.



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sspellman
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Oct 30, 2012 15:35 |  #11

Christopher Steven b wrote in post #15187440 (external link)
@chris - I agree
@ZxDrew - That's probably the easiest thing to negotiate about. Good idea.
@Littlejon - thanks for the even anecdotal evidence of the value of having the venue pass on a card. 1 booking would make it worthwhile to me to offset any usage fees.
@sapearl - true.
@Scott - would you charge them for the poster or consider it sufficiently advertising for your services ?
@Nathan - brilliant, that makes sense.
@zerovision - thanks.
@DunnoWhen - I've asked their permission, of course.

The poster with your big logo is the best advertising you can't buy


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Christopher ­ Steven ­ b
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Oct 31, 2012 13:57 |  #12

Here is what I did. I first expressed how cool it was that they wanted to use my images. I then explained how commercial photography works--ie. photographers are normally paid for their work; they seemed to think asking permission to use was sufficient ! I then asked if they are interested in purchasing a license for use. I then added that I'm willing to work with them and so if they can offer anything more formal (e.g. in terms of handing out business cards), I'd definitely work with them there.

Despite the suggestions I've been given in the thread (basically: there's only upside; give them the images and ask about perks in return) the reason why I introduced the idea of them purchasing a license, is because (1) I just don't like how it was assumed by the business that they can use a photographer's image for free (2) I landed two weddings at this venue this year without any of the potential benefits they might offer. Moreover, they're likely mostly booked already for next year; and so any benefit I see will be 2 seasons from now.

We'll see how this goes. The thing is, my seo is so kick-ass that those who search for this venue will absolutely see my images regardless of what happens.



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Littlejon ­ Dsgn
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Oct 31, 2012 14:19 |  #13

Christopher Steven b wrote in post #15191393 (external link)
Here is what I did. I first expressed how cool it was that they wanted to use my images. I then explained how commercial photography works--ie. photographers are normally paid for their work; they seemed to think asking permission to use was sufficient ! I then asked if they are interested in purchasing a license for use. I then added that I'm willing to work with them and so if they can offer anything more formal (e.g. in terms of handing out business cards), I'd definitely work with them there.

Despite the suggestions I've been given in the thread (basically: there's only upside; give them the images and ask about perks in return) the reason why I introduced the idea of them purchasing a license, is because (1) I just don't like how it was assumed by the business that they can use a photographer's image for free (2) I landed two weddings at this venue this year without any of the potential benefits they might offer. Moreover, they're likely mostly booked already for next year; and so any benefit I see will be 2 seasons from now.

We'll see how this goes. The thing is, my seo is so kick-ass that those who search for this venue will absolutely see my images regardless of what happens.


At the very least you let them know that this type of work is not normally free, now its just negotiating :) Best of luck




  
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JacobPhoto
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Nov 02, 2012 02:39 |  #14

Be careful. Once you go down the 'free photos' path, it can be hard to get off of it. They may continue to ask you for images in the future for other ads.

You may want to give them a normal price from Fotoquote or similar (you'll need to find out how many copies the mag distributes to get an accurate number), then offer to cut the price in half if they agree to you being the "preferred photographer" or what not. That way, you still get paid AND you get the perks of the reference. Additionally, the venue will know that there is a price associated with your images, and won't simply ask you for more images without expecting to pay for them.


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Nov 05, 2012 07:30 as a reply to  @ JacobPhoto's post |  #15

mostly good advice regarding not turning off the venue.

one more suggestion: Assign a value to the image then discount it. That way they know what it would cost for an outright purchase, and know that you value the relationship and what they can do to promote your business.


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