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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 10 Nov 2012 (Saturday) 07:30
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It is me or my 5D3?

 
Keebert
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Nov 10, 2012 07:30 |  #1

I switched from a 60D to 5D3 about a month ago and I'm struggling. Mostly, the shots I get aren't as crisp or detailed looking as those from the 60D. Now I feel like this is just me getting up my learning curve so I just want to eliminate that there is not something hardware related that is an issue.

I'm posting a couple of examples. I have been used to being able to crop my 60D shots to around 1/4 of the original frame and still getting very good results - I can't seem to do this with my 5D3. A 1/4 crop of the 5D3 leaves poorer image detail than the 60D.

Here is an example from the 5D3:

Full frame shot

IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8205/8171905262_4b57773f3a_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/13392981@N03/8​171905262/  (external link)

100% crop
IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8197/8171905382_ba81a8acf8_o.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/13392981@N03/8​171905382/  (external link)

AF point
IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8204/8171875203_6a40cd76a1_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/13392981@N03/8​171875203/  (external link)


Now here's one from my 60D

Original shot (this is a crop)
IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8015/7584984928_eb9c2b2977_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/13392981@N03/7​584984928/  (external link)

Showing the crop
IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8290/7584433634_dc43a64622_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/13392981@N03/7​584433634/  (external link)

100% shot
IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8206/8171913835_335fd4ccce_o.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/13392981@N03/8​171913835/  (external link)

5D3, 50/1.4, 40/2.8, 24-105L, 100L, 70-200L II, 400/5.6L, 600EX-RT, Zuiko 28/2.8, flickr (external link)

  
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windpig
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Nov 10, 2012 07:50 |  #2

Same lenses?
Not exactly a high contrast spot on the raptor to try and AF on.

Set up a static test and calibrate your lens. That's the only way your going to get a handle on this.


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gjl711
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Nov 10, 2012 07:58 |  #3

It's not a focus problem, the focus is spot on but it looks as if noise reduction is on as well and rather aggressively.


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John ­ from ­ PA
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Nov 10, 2012 08:20 |  #4

Can you provide the images with EXIF attached; then we would know a lot more about the camera settings. If you can't do that, then look at the EXIF for the 60D image and the 5DIII image and make a parameter by parameter comparison. Quite often the differences that are detected will lead you to a solution.




  
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Keebert
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Nov 10, 2012 08:24 |  #5

gjl711 wrote in post #15229392 (external link)
It's not a focus problem, the focus is spot on but it looks as if noise reduction is on as well and rather aggressively.

Yes, for some reason the default in DPP is 7 for both luminance and chrominance NR. I need to set that of off!

Now with no NR:

IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8057/8172029337_58d51e1b77_o.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/13392981@N03/8​172029337/  (external link)

5D3, 50/1.4, 40/2.8, 24-105L, 100L, 70-200L II, 400/5.6L, 600EX-RT, Zuiko 28/2.8, flickr (external link)

  
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EL_PIC
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Nov 10, 2012 08:45 |  #6
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NR yea but lighting, color, and contrast also play important parts.
Your 5D III example above has reduced l, c, and c from your 60D shots.
FF is great but it still needs above.


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sandpiper
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Nov 10, 2012 09:04 |  #7

John from PA wrote in post #15229435 (external link)
Can you provide the images with EXIF attached; then we would know a lot more about the camera settings. If you can't do that, then look at the EXIF for the 60D image and the 5DIII image and make a parameter by parameter comparison. Quite often the differences that are detected will lead you to a solution.

EXIF is present, but only on the crops. Differences are minimal, both are at f/5.6 (wide open on a 400mm prime) the hummingbird has the slower shutter speed (1/250) with the "problem" shot being at 1/1000th, so it isn't due to the bird moving and too slow a shutter.

The only difference that might make the raptor shot a little softer is that it is at 1600 ISO compared to 800, but I would have thought the 5D3 should have no issues there.

As mentioned above, it could be a NR problem softening things (I have it turned off on my 5D3) as well as a contrast issue in that particular subject (although I imagine that the owner has shot quite a few subjects with this camera and that can't have been an issue in all of them).




  
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gjl711
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Nov 10, 2012 09:17 |  #8

One other though, it might be the increased pixel density of the 60D is giving it a bit more detail. I don't have the 5DMkIII but I do have the MkII which essentially IQ wise is the same camera and I know that there are situations that my 7D out resolves the MkII when viewing at 100% which is why the 7D makes such a nice birding camera.


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Numenorean
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Nov 10, 2012 09:18 |  #9

Must be the 5D Mk III.

I'll trade you my 7D straight up for it so you don't have to worry about it anymore.


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gjl711
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Nov 10, 2012 09:20 |  #10

And another though, are these camera generated jpegs? I seem to remember some post a while back where the MkIII in camera jpegs seemed to have more NR. If you have raw files, check those.


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SiaoP
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Nov 10, 2012 11:13 |  #11

The lighting on the gray dull boring brown bird is horrible. The lighting on the hummingbird with super crazy neon feathers is great and brings out the texture a lot better. Try other tests since I seriously doubt the 5D3 has worse resolution than the APS-C sensor.

You might want to check the autofocus microadjustment too just to be double sure. I'm guessing it might be more of a technique thing or environmental factor.


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callaesthetics
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Nov 10, 2012 11:28 |  #12

I've heard of earlier versions of DPP softening photos, have you update?


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amfoto1
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Nov 10, 2012 12:27 |  #13

All the above is correct... In these examples, I believe the main difference is lighting and contrast with the subjects. But noise reduction likely plays a role, too. Also, the levels of sharpening applied to the images might be a part of the difference (I don't have a 5d3, so can't say how much sharpening is needed with it).

However, also be aware that a 60D's 18MP sensor is more than twice as densely populated with pixel sites as the 21MP sensor in the 5DIII. Rounded off numbers: 60D's is about 54,000 per square mm, vs about 25,000 in the 5D3, if I recall correctly. Factor in the differences in sensor format (15x22 vs 24x36mm) and you end up with about 50 or 60% more "pixels on target" with the crop camera.

After that, it's down to lens resolving power and/or anything added to it (such as a teleconverter behind it or a filter in front). FF will pick apart the quality of your lenses more than a crop camera will. So you need more powerful, higher resolving (i.e., bigger, heavier, more expensive) lenses with the FF camera.


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cdang
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Nov 10, 2012 12:28 |  #14

callaesthetics wrote in post #15229927 (external link)
I've heard of earlier versions of DPP softening photos, have you update?


+1.




  
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It is me or my 5D3?
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