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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 06 Nov 2012 (Tuesday) 12:16
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Best Bokeh?

 
ZoneV
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Nov 08, 2012 07:26 |  #46

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #15221146 (external link)
... The only way you could get away with it is if the film suface was also curved, but a far as I know, only our eyes can do that... until someone invents a spherical sensor. As insanely expensive as that would be, it would single-handedly solve almost all issues regarding distortion as there would be nothing to correct, or a whole lot less, in any case.

Sony and Nikon have both patented a curved image sensor:
http://appft1.uspto.go​v …&l=50&s1=201202​17606.PGNR (external link).
http://nikonrumors.com …age-sensor-and-more.aspx/ (external link)

I have read the maximum iris number is related to the thermodynamics laws. Other write it is the Abbe sinus law is for maximum f-stop.


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ZoneV
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Nov 08, 2012 08:13 |  #47

LowriderS10 wrote in post #15221328 (external link)
... I'm surprised that the 50 1.0L has it as well...you'd think a fast lens like that would have top-notch bokeh, since that's a huge part of why they make/why people buy fast lenses.

I think many aspheric lens designs are prone to create onion rings under some circumstances. Probably not all aspherical elements do that.
I could even imaging that this is kind of production tolerance - at least on the Samyang lenses I think this is a special rare problem with the wooly bokeh and not normal onion rings:
Samyang 35mm/1.4 bad wooly bokeh (external link), Samyang 85mm/1.4 bad bokeh.
And some/one Tamron 28-75mm/2.8 have wooly bokeh (external link) too.

Normal onion ring bokeh:
EF 35/1.4L (external link), EF 50/1.0L (external link), EF 50/1.2L (external link), EF 85/1.2L (external link), Sigma 50mm/1.4 (external link)

It seems artifical light is good for onion rings (sometimes less different wavelengths).
This is a reason why I love my Minolta Rokkor 58mm/1.2 - no aspherical element, but nearly as good as the two fast Canon EF lenses.
The old Zeiss Contax 35mm/1.4 has an aspherical element too - and onion rings :-/

I suppose most people doesn´t see onion rings or even worse bokeh in their images! They only see the size, and size seems to be = quality. For me size is quantity. And quality is for example described with intensity profile of the bokeh circles.


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Kolor-Pikker
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Nov 08, 2012 09:01 |  #48

ZoneV wrote in post #15221515 (external link)
Sony and Nikon have both patented a curved image sensor:
http://appft1.uspto.go​v …&l=50&s1=201202​17606.PGNR (external link).
http://nikonrumors.com …age-sensor-and-more.aspx/ (external link)

I have read the maximum iris number is related to the thermodynamics laws. Other write it is the Abbe sinus law is for maximum f-stop.

I see, well a patent is one thing, bringing the idea into a practical device is another. Even f/0.5 lenses are already in use at micro electronics fabs; curved sensors only exist on paper (as far as I know).

Unfortunately, none of these things are likely to be within reach of mortals for a long time, theory and laws of physics are cooler on paper than they are in practice. :lol:


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ZoneV
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Nov 08, 2012 09:21 |  #49

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #15221789 (external link)
.... Even f/0.5 lenses are already in use at micro electronics fabs; curved sensors only exist on paper (as far as I know)...

Ah, those monster lenses!
For those who don´t know lithographic lenses - see page 6 here:
http://www.lithoguru.c​om …lution_Matsuyam​a_2006.pdf (external link)


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ZREXER
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Nov 08, 2012 09:24 as a reply to  @ ZoneV's post |  #50

SMC Takumar 50mm 1.4. This is an amazing little lens.


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bamatt
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Nov 08, 2012 09:25 |  #51

ZoneV wrote in post #15220019 (external link)
Looks like an sliced onion - many rings in the bokeh circles:
http://journal.bryanso​derlind.com/uncategori​zed/f1.html (external link) image 1, 3 and 4 are good examples.

Sometimes they are there, and on many images made with aspherical lenses there are normal bokeh circles. I think light quality is a main factor there.

Some few lenses have even worst, something called woolly bokeh.


Thank you. I posted this the other day, a shot of my nephew. I really like the bokeh from my 24 1.4L.

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1244650


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ZoneV
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Nov 08, 2012 09:47 |  #52

bamatt wrote in post #15221859 (external link)
Thank you. I posted this the other day, a shot of my nephew. I really like the bokeh from my 24 1.4L.

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1244650

Yes, it seems that sunlight is most times no problem. At night with artificial light (probably best: colored LED) it seems more often a problem. Bokeh needs to be not over exposed.
I have made some images with my Canon FD 85/1.2L which has an aspheric lens, and some are bad. I don´t like lenses that sometimes give a bad result.


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Nov 08, 2012 13:13 as a reply to  @ bamatt's post |  #53

I am surprised no one has mentioned the "Bokina"
Tokina 90mm f2.5 macro. -also branded as Vivitar
It is not that expensive and they pop up on ebay every now and then.
Legendary Bokeh.


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noisejammer
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Nov 09, 2012 19:34 |  #54

ZoneV wrote in post #15221096 (external link)
With sensor inside the lens 1:0,3535 seems to be at least theoretical possible (Solid Schmidt-Camera).

If memory serves, A Schmidt camera has the focal plane curved parallel with the primary. Say the diameter was 36", the focal length would be about 13" and a 6" (chord) diameter ccd panel would have a spherical radius of 2.1 inches...

That's a spec that might alarm the chip makers... :D

I was part of an accelerator team about 15 years back. Some colleagues constructed four lenses for the 12" x 12" scintillator arrays we built. If memory serves, these were f/0.7 and the entrance pupil of the lens was closely matched to the exit cone of the 1 mm sq scintillation fibres. The trade off was that the lens was monochromatic, had exactly one image distance that it could work at (properly) and focus was achieved by moving the CCD camera.

... and they weighed about half a ton.


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Asroma
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Nov 10, 2012 06:51 |  #55

I will pick 35 f1.4 and 135 f2 for best bokeh


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NotBlake
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Nov 10, 2012 22:56 |  #56

400mm f/2.8: it has a 142mm diaphragm, compare that to the measly 67mm diaphragm of the 135 F2.

A note, the size of the lenses diaphragm is the most important factor in determining the volume of blur present in a photo. More is not always better as other lens characteristics also weigh in but it's a good baseline.




  
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ZoneV
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Nov 12, 2012 01:38 |  #57

noisejammer wrote in post #15228129 (external link)
..
... and they weighed about half a ton.

I suppose the normal Schmidt cameras are with much airspace between the mirrors. The Solid Schmidt Camera concept need much more glass, here an image:
http://forum.digitalfo​tonetz.de/viewtopic.ph​p?p=282797 (external link)


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Xcelx
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Nov 12, 2012 03:46 |  #58

NotBlake wrote in post #15231663 (external link)
400mm f/2.8: it has a 142mm diaphragm, compare that to the measly 67mm diaphragm of the 135 F2.

A note, the size of the lenses diaphragm is the most important factor in determining the volume of blur present in a photo. More is not always better as other lens characteristics also weigh in but it's a good baseline.

I was just waiting for someone to mention the superteles :) I'd also pick the 400mm 2.8 for the best bokeh




  
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ZoneV
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Nov 12, 2012 04:42 |  #59

Xcelx wrote in post #15235667 (external link)
I was just waiting for someone to mention the superteles :) I'd also pick the 400mm 2.8 for the best bokeh

I use and have used the 300/2.8L, 400/2.8L, 500/4.5L and 800/5.6 in FD mount type - their bokeh circles are big - but beside the amount, the quality of bokeh is more or less normal. So not best bokeh, only much bokeh.

Regarding bokeh quality Nikon and Sony/Minolta have the better lenses in their current system.
Nikon DC Nikkor lenses with bokeh control with spherical correction, and the Sony STF 135mm lens with its apodization element.


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Nov 12, 2012 05:41 |  #60
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bamatt wrote in post #15221859 (external link)
Thank you. I posted this the other day, a shot of my nephew. I really like the bokeh from my 24 1.4L.

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1244650

I don't like that kind of bokeh at all I am sorry. It looks so nervous imo.

Then again that's typical of what you'd get from a semi wide lens such as the 24L and 35L.

I quite like my Zeiss 50 mp, it produces quite an amazing bokeh imo ;)

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