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Thread started 08 Nov 2012 (Thursday) 12:08
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Hate my 7D, what about a Mark IV instead?

 
jase1125
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Nov 11, 2012 19:04 |  #106

h14nha wrote in post #15234282 (external link)
I had a chance to look through my files tonight. I nearly always delete OOF shots immediately, but found this one and thought I would illustrate the 100-400's AF. It may not be the 7d.

Wow I have never had a shot oof like that from my 100-400.


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Nov 11, 2012 19:08 |  #107

The ocean looks in focus on that shot.


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Rich ­ Smith
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Nov 11, 2012 19:50 |  #108

jase1125 wrote in post #15234455 (external link)
Wow I have never had a shot oof like that from my 100-400.

Me either!




  
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mmabc
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Nov 11, 2012 19:54 as a reply to  @ Rich Smith's post |  #109

Hey look. I told you I still have uses for the 7D. I just bought the 600EX flash, an umbrella, and backdrop. With the 7D I get the popup flash controlling two off camera flashes. This is one of my first pictures. Couldn't be happier!

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5D3 | 7D | 70-200 f2.8L IS II | 16-35 f2.8L II | 24-105 f4L | 50 f1.4 | 600EX-RT | 430EX

  
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chantu
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Nov 11, 2012 20:46 |  #110

h14nha wrote in post #15234282 (external link)
I had a chance to look through my files tonight. I nearly always delete OOF shots immediately, but found this one and thought I would illustrate the 100-400's AF. It may not be the 7d.

Probably user error. Did the 7D achieve focus lock? I could imagine an issue if the focus is a tad off where the AF servo mechanism doesn't quite achieve tack sharp focus. But this photo is not even close to focus. Zone focus would probably be the best mode here.


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Johnny ­ V
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Nov 11, 2012 23:16 |  #111

h14nha wrote in post #15234282 (external link)
I had a chance to look through my files tonight. I nearly always delete OOF shots immediately, but found this one and thought I would illustrate the 100-400's AF. It may not be the 7d.

Change it to B&W and you'll have a nice art piece!


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TONEB1146
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Nov 12, 2012 10:56 |  #112

amfoto1 wrote in post #15233535 (external link)
Above is a pretty good overview...

I've been using a pair of 7Ds for over three years now... Yes, it was a difficult camera to get consistent results with at first... I almost gave up. However, it ultimatelly came down to me learning to use the camera, no problem with them or the model in general.

Sure, I bet there are some "bad" 7Ds out there. Also some bad 5DIIIs and 1DXs, or any other model you care to name. There always are a few bad copies of any complex product like a DSLR, though I'm certain Canon works to minimize it (after their experience with 1D III AF issues, which they denied even existed for about a year, but ultimately proved to be real and seeemed most commonly due to a component that tended to overheat). I suspect that the vast majority of 7D "focus problems" are down to the user and how they have set up the camera.

Between the camera, the lens and the user themselves, here are so many things that can be at the root of focus problems...

The 100-400 is known to be problematic with a filter on it. Seems to interfere with focus and make for overall soft shots. If you have a "protection" filter on it, remove it and try again.

1/400 is too slow a shutter speed for fast action shots from a moving boat. Use 1/640 to 1/1000 at least. Higher might be even more helpful, wouldn't hurt. 7D and the other 18MP cameras are a bit more susceptible to camera shake than lower resolution models. Canon published a white paper about this a year or two ago, recommending using slightly higher shutter speeds than with some other, lower pixel density cameras (such as 5DIII or 5DII... both their sensors have less than half the pixel density of the 18MP crop sensor cameras).

I think in this case, part of the fault might have been using the monopod in a moving boat. All the vibrations of the boat slapping across the water and it's engine are being transferred directly to the camera via the monopod. If the boat weren't moving and it's motor were shut off, it would be different and the monopod might be a good idea. However, since it is moving and the motor is running, handholding the camera with IS on would likely give better results, as someone else already metioned, absorbing a lot of the vibrations with your body and arms. A higher shutter speed also might have helped offset camera shake blurring.

No reason to keep to ISO 100... bump it to 200 or 400, even 800. They are as clean or cleaner than 100 on 7D. ISO 1600 is quite usable. 3200 starts to get a bit noisy, but it's not an obnoxious type of noise so I'll use it when I have to. Higher ISO will help you keep those shutter speeds up, and stop down a little more. I don't know if it matters or not, but I have set my 7Ds (and other Canon) to use only the full ISO steps 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600, etc. In some case, the 1/3 or 2/3 stops don't seem to be as clean as the full stops... but it's not a huge difference and my main reason for setting the cameras up this way is that it allows me to more quickly change ISO and I just don't need the 1/3 and 2/3 ISOs, there's plenty of precision in 1/3 stops or steps with apreture and shutter. (But I never use Auto ISO, either. It might be useful to have the 1/3 and 2/3 ISOs if using that.)

Also set a slightly smaller aperture to have more depth of field. f5.6 would be my choice. f4 if necessary to keep shutter speeds up. A bit more depth of field would be more forgiving of slight focus errors.

It has little or nothing to do with the images blur/focus issues... but you might want to set +1/3 or +2/3 Exposure Compensation... your images are underexposed, too. I don't entirely agree with the above... Center Weighted metering isn't necessarily any better than Evaluative metering. It's more what you are accustomed to, have learned how to tweak well in different lighting situations. When I'm using any of the auto exposure modes, I use Evaluative most of the time... For me it works particularly well with strongly backlit situations when the subject is filling a lot of the viewfinder. And it's just the metering mode I am most accustomed to, so can anticipate and dial in corrections for, if needed. Whenever possible, I just set the camera to M and use a handheld, incidence meter for highly accurate exposure settings that are "locked in" right where I want them.

Back to the focus issues...

It could be as simple as folks using One Shot when they should be using AI Servo. The 7D can do either just fine... But I sometimes see people trying to use a "bump focus" One Shot technique with it and other Canon models, when shooting moving subjects. Keeper rate with that is always disappointing... the faster or more erratic the subject, the lower the keeper rate will be. AI Servo doesn't give Focus Confirmation... Just get used to it. You have to learn to trust the camera and yourself. Folks using One Shot/bump focus who I've gotten to switch have been really amazed how their keeper rate went up after just a little practice with AI Servo.

My main problems early on... and I suspect the problems many other new users have with 7D... were related to the settings I was making. For one thing, I had way too high expectations for some of the fancy new auto focus modes. Found I do much better dialing it back to something simple... Single Point, Center Point Only the vast majority of the time. Yes, I use most of the other modes... Expansion Points, Zone Focus, Spot Focus... In some situations where they're appropriate! But, honestly, I find I use those far less often than Single Point, usually Center Point.

I also dial down tracking sensitivity a notch or two when I'm out of practice with the camera... but I often dial it back up when I'm feeling good and have been shooting a lot. That helps nail more shots with erratically moving subjects. It's sort of a balancing act, slowing it down is what I'd recommend to start with. Mainly, it keeps the camera from quickly jumping to another point of focus due to temporary obstructions between you and your subject or accidentally letting the AF point slip off the subject momentarily... It might be more important when using any of the multi-point modes.

Tracking priority set to continuous is only applicable when using multiple points, if I recall correctly. It dictates how the camera transfers tracking from one AF point to the next. I might be wrong about this, but I do have my cameras set to continuous, too.

I use Back Button Focusing... have for years with many different models of Canon. It's an old sports shooter trick. I don't know if it would help the OP, but it's definitely worth a try... works especially well with AI Servo and any sort of action shooting to separate the AF function from the shutter release. I press the back button to start focus (and metering and IS), track the moving subject continuously, pressing the shutter button to take shots at peak moments as I continue to follow the subject. Biggest problem with Back Button Focus.... sometimes late in a long day of shooting my thumb starts to cramp! It takes a little getting used to, but once past that, most people wonder why they ever used any other method of focus!

7D is the best model I've used for AF performance. I toss less than 3 or 4% of my shots due to focus issues, even shooting various fast moving subjects. I got slightly worse, probably 4 to 6%, with 50D before (and 30D before that)... and I see a lot higher loss due to missed focus with moving subjects with 5DII (about 40-50% loss, action shots) ... so I don't use the full frame camera for action photography. Maybe I'd do better if I practiced with the full frame camera. Or, if I just got a 5DIII. Or, I'm sure a 1D series camera would be even better than 7D... might see only 1 or 2 or 3% lost to missed focus... but that's a lot to spend for fairly marginal increase in keeper rate. Plus I really like the 1.6X crop for most types of action photography... prefer it to full frame or 1.3X crop.

Nice write up! Thanks!


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mmabc
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Nov 12, 2012 11:38 as a reply to  @ TONEB1146's post |  #113

Another thing that could have affected a lot of my skiing shots was the IS mode switch on the lens. That lens was brand new, and I don't know if I understood the switch. Should have been set to mode 2 for panned shots. Probably was set to mode 1 for constant horizontal and vertical IS.


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Nov 12, 2012 13:17 |  #114

I have AI Servo Tracking Sensitivity turned down a notch. I use center point expanded AF area. Back button focus on AI servo.

Of the 400 shots at yesterdays softball tournament I think there were 3 that were out of focus. Those were user error. It was freezing cold and I was wearing gloves. Didn't always hit the focus button.


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jthomps123
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Nov 12, 2012 13:56 |  #115

Oh my... the usual suspects are finally willing to admit there is a non-trivial amount of faulty 7Ds out there. Glory glory hallelulah there is hope for use yet!


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Nov 12, 2012 15:33 |  #116

jthomps123 wrote in post #15237374 (external link)
Oh my... the usual suspects are finally willing to admit there is a non-trivial amount of faulty 7Ds out there. Glory glory hallelulah there is hope for use yet!

bw!


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h14nha
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Nov 12, 2012 17:14 |  #117

2n10 wrote in post #15234476 (external link)
The ocean looks in focus on that shot.

Rich Smith wrote in post #15234611 (external link)
Me either!

chantu wrote in post #15234788 (external link)
Probably user error. Did the 7D achieve focus lock? I could imagine an issue if the focus is a tad off where the AF servo mechanism doesn't quite achieve tack sharp focus. But this photo is not even close to focus. Zone focus would probably be the best mode here.

jase1125 wrote in post #15234455 (external link)
Wow I have never had a shot oof like that from my 100-400.

It was the order of that day I'm afraid. I was after a Puffin in flight and had about a 10% partial success rate, by that I mean ok shots not great ones. I was gutted as I left my 70-200 in the car which would have sufficed at Skomer. I tried EVERY AF setting, it didn't make any difference.
In case you are wondering, no filter involved, in great light, I sped up the AF, and slowed it down, I did everything I could think of with no luck.
The lens has been serviced, here's one before I got on the boat to prove it was working on static objects.


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Nov 12, 2012 21:40 |  #118

h14nha wrote in post #15234282 (external link)
I had a chance to look through my files tonight. I nearly always delete OOF shots immediately, but found this one and thought I would illustrate the 100-400's AF. It may not be the 7d.

Wow cool. You missed the focus point. I see you are from S Wales. Is there a marina or garbage dump you could visit and practice some 'Bird In Flight' picture taking? I did this for several days with my 7D when I first got it and I can tell you it helped immensely.

Mike


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Nov 13, 2012 03:13 |  #119

I dont take a lot of pics of birds, especially ones in flight, but here are two taken with the 7d & 100-400 lens combo. These were both take in AI Servo mode & AF Point Expansion. (forgot to add that both of these shots were taken at the extreme focal length of the lens, 400mm)

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR


IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8030/8056499611_348ed99aa8_b.jpg

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Nov 13, 2012 04:19 |  #120

doofuss wrote in post #15239658 (external link)
I dont take a lot of pics of birds, especially ones in flight, but here are two taken with the 7d & 100-400 lens combo. These were both take in AI Servo mode & AF Point Expansion.

IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR


QUOTED IMAGE

Stunning! ;)


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Hate my 7D, what about a Mark IV instead?
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