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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 09 Nov 2012 (Friday) 14:50
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Best way to sell for multiple football games

 
ryanshoots
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Nov 09, 2012 23:39 |  #31

Think about what the previous photographer did. You claim she took in 3k, set yourself up in the same way. X per cd. She trained them to expect to pay for a CD, take advantage of that. Collect payments and name and address and send them the cd via media mail. Forget online.

Now, this next statement is not a judgement of your photography abilities, rather it's a judgment on human behavior. If you let them see photos on the web, they'll either be happy with low res for facebook, etc (so watermark heavily as others have said), but once they see them, unless it's Johnny doing something super extraordinary, they'll give them a ho hum and pass

Maybe I can put it another way.

Sell the sizzle, not the steak. A cd of all the great shots of the game plays bigger in their mind before the game at purchase time when they imagine all the great plays Johnny might make; than when they get on the photo site after their team lost and see there weren't that many great plays.




  
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glumpy
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Nov 10, 2012 03:39 |  #32
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JPJ2007 wrote in post #15228661 (external link)
I got this responce on another board and agree with it.

I just dont see myself being able to convince each team to gather up 500 bucks. at 25 kids a team thats $20 a kid.
For a CD with all the photos, I would not charge less than $250. How many people are going to say "Oh, you bought a CD? I will just copy yours. So for 4 games you are risking only getting $80. $80 I would not even show up for.

Others will have a better plan, but instead of offering a CD to each parent, offer one to the team for somewhere between $250 and $500. The team can collect $10-$20 from the parents to purchase the CD. Shoot, for $500 a team, I might actually burn a disc for each player. With 8 teams you are looking at $4000 at $500 a team disc.


So, Lets say I did that because I agree 100% for me to make what I want that's the only option.
I would give each team a flyer stating that a Team CD is available for purchase at a price of
$250 Or $500. whatever it is. at 25 kids avg per team that $10 / $20.

Apart from Pricing, isn't this Exactly what I said??? :rolleyes:

How the hell is that any less of a nightmare to administer ( which it's not!)
That what I suggested ?? :rolleyes:

Charge a price per kid for however many on the team and make that the total cost.
They can divide the price up between those who want the disk.
If there are 10 players and you want $25 per kid then it's $250. If there are 15 Kids then it's $16.60.

I can't think of anything simpler!

Let the parents sort out what the per player cost is, all you want is a fee for every kid on the team so you don't sell one CD and they just copy it themselves. How many opt is is up to them, you don't have to get involved at all, just collect the money and deliver the disks!


From RDKirk: First, let me check the forum heading...yes, it does say "Business of Photography" and not "Hobby of Photography." Okay. So we're talking about making money, not about hobbies. By "business" I am presuming activities that pay expenses and produce a profit over the long term.

  
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JPJ2007
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Nov 10, 2012 22:49 |  #33

Well, I went. It was a bit of a joke. And a bit ghetto as in there was a fight between parents of appossing teams. I mean really? it's peewee football... Cmon.

Made a couple hundred from pre sale cds, Pretty much only from the first game.
Just had no notice for parents etc.... the people at the gate handed out my cards all day.

Anyway, Heres the first photos!


https://photography-on-the.net …p?p=15231642#po​st15231642


Canon t3i, Sigma 10-20.

  
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glumpy
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Nov 11, 2012 04:29 |  #34
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JPJ2007 wrote in post #15231646 (external link)
Well, I went. It was a bit of a joke. And a bit ghetto as in there was a fight between parents of appossing teams. I mean really? it's peewee football... Cmon.

Made a couple hundred from pre sale cds, Pretty much only from the first game.
Just had no notice for parents etc.... the people at the gate handed out my cards all day.

Anyway, Heres the first photos!


https://photography-on-the.net …p?p=15231642#po​st15231642

Sounds like the $3K the other shooter supposedly made Might have been somewhat blown out of proportion.

If there is a one thing wrong with kids sports it's adults. Same in every sport you get involved in. If it's not the adults getting all upset about a game the the kids can't remember an hour after they played it, It's adults running the commities and clubs that get on a power trip and stuff it up that way.

I think if you got plenty of pics of the standard shown, The parents ought to be bloody happy. Ought to be but probably will find something to whine about because each and every one of their kids will be a superstar and you failed to get a shot showing their ability to play at the top adult level right now! :rolleyes:

I once had a mother ring me and say I had destroyed her Twin 8 Yo daughters Future netball career because the T&I shots I got of them didn't make them look good enough.
Unfortunately, The kids, very much like me, were not blessed with good looks in any way but with a neurotic mother like that, They were probably born the most beautiful children on earth and she stressed and embarrassed the good looks out of them. :mad:

The kicker was after having run ins with this mother for bad mouthing me unfairly on multiple occasions, her husband ( who she had sent a couple of times to have a got at me but was a very reasonable and embarrassed guy) ended up being my son's soccer coach and she put herself down as the manager. That lasted about 2 weeks due to her being totally off the planet ( and without any input from me) and another mother took over.
The Husband was a good coach and a nice fellow, How he got stuck with her I'll never know, but The poor Bugger never really could look me in the eye.

The thing with this is now you have done it, go do it again.
Work out where you went wrong ( apart from parent Failure in you market) put the things into place so that dosen't happen again and go pitch the same idea to some other Clubs/ teams.

Seems like you started out on the wrong foot so it can only get better from here right? :D


From RDKirk: First, let me check the forum heading...yes, it does say "Business of Photography" and not "Hobby of Photography." Okay. So we're talking about making money, not about hobbies. By "business" I am presuming activities that pay expenses and produce a profit over the long term.

  
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mobei
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Nov 11, 2012 15:34 |  #35

Don't forget to send in your sales tax.




  
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J.Napier
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Nov 11, 2012 18:13 |  #36

And there it is, thats about a typical take for such an event this has been done a dozen different ways and there are plenty of threads that document it. I have participated in a few of them, you had the right idea by trying to get presales, if you had view staions you may or may not have made more. I useualy dont even bother to get into the fray anymore as I always sound like the discourager and thats not it at all, its just hard model to make $ at and I am set up pretty well with on site printing and sales and 12 view stations. You got some decent shots so I dont think your photography was bad. Its just hard to corral the presale. And I agree I would be skeptical of a 4k take on an event of this size. I shoot as a photog only for one of the bigger cheer event companys here in the US. Hes does pretty well and has it down really good, but theres not a lot of them doing the size of events that he does. The bigger and more prestigous the event the better your sales will be.
Just a few ideas for you to ponder.What area of the country are you in?

JPJ2007 wrote in post #15231646 (external link)
Well, I went. It was a bit of a joke. And a bit ghetto as in there was a fight between parents of appossing teams. I mean really? it's peewee football... Cmon.

Made a couple hundred from pre sale cds, Pretty much only from the first game.
Just had no notice for parents etc.... the people at the gate handed out my cards all day.

Anyway, Heres the first photos!

https://photography-on-the.net …p?p=15231642#po​st15231642


Jeff
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glumpy
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Nov 12, 2012 02:49 |  #37
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J.Napier wrote in post #15234300 (external link)
And there it is, thats about a typical take for such an event this has been done a dozen different ways and there are plenty of threads that document it. I have participated in a few of them, you had the right idea by trying to get presales, if you had view staions you may or may not have made more. I useualy dont even bother to get into the fray anymore as I always sound like the discourager and thats not it at all, its just hard model to make $ at and I am set up pretty well with on site printing and sales and 12 view stations. You got some decent shots so I dont think your photography was bad. Its just hard to corral the presale. And I agree I would be skeptical of a 4k take on an event of this size. I shoot as a photog only for one of the bigger cheer event companys here in the US. Hes does pretty well and has it down really good, but theres not a lot of them doing the size of events that he does. The bigger and more prestigous the event the better your sales will be.
Just a few ideas for you to ponder.What area of the country are you in?

I agree and know where you are coming from.
Hammy has been a great help to me as well in doing event work and I did a setup with 12+ V stations as well folling a lot for his model. I was just in NZ shooting one of his cheer events and have been trying to get the pre-sale CD thing here going a while now and was talking to him about it.

I haven't got very far as pretty much all the clubs and associations I have spoken to about it are close minded or unwilling to try something new. One association I was working with even put the idea on the website and had a poll on it which was overwhealmingly in favour of what I was proposing. the officialdom knocked it back on a clearly fabricated and laughable excuse.

Unfortunately the numbers in that organisation hav now dwindled to the point where they are not viable to work with anymore and I have gone onto bigger and better things so it really didn't matter.

There are many approaches to any given market and I keep an open mind and am happy to put in place whichever one I think will work best.
As you allude to however, the bottom line is picking your market. There are many now that just won't work no matter how you approach them for a whole variety of reasons.

It's not about what photographers want or like to shoot, it's about finding one that gives you are decent return for your time.


From RDKirk: First, let me check the forum heading...yes, it does say "Business of Photography" and not "Hobby of Photography." Okay. So we're talking about making money, not about hobbies. By "business" I am presuming activities that pay expenses and produce a profit over the long term.

  
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Joe300
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Nov 13, 2012 22:21 |  #38

Hello,
So if you burn all the images of the game onto a CD / DVD and sell it for $200.00.
How do you prevent that person making extra cd's and going to all the other parents and selling the same DVD for $25.00 to each parent.??? $25.00 x 30 kids = big $$$$ you are not getting... you just got the up front $200.00.

thanks,
Joe


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joeblack2022
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Nov 13, 2012 22:39 |  #39

JPJ2007 wrote in post #15231646 (external link)
Well, I went. It was a bit of a joke. And a bit ghetto as in there was a fight between parents of appossing teams. I mean really? it's peewee football... Cmon.

Not surprised, the local minor hockey league is making parents take a mandatory course in respect, no word of a lie.

This on the other hand...

http://ca.sports.yahoo​.com …-saskatoon-220302885.html (external link)


Joel

  
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J.Napier
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Nov 16, 2012 14:07 |  #40

Joe300 wrote in post #15243172 (external link)
Hello,
So if you burn all the images of the game onto a CD / DVD and sell it for $200.00.
How do you prevent that person making extra cd's and going to all the other parents and selling the same DVD for $25.00 to each parent.??? $25.00 x 30 kids = big $$$$ you are not getting... you just got the up front $200.00.

thanks,
Joe

The up front $200.00 is better than NO $$$ at all.You give up the CD/DVD rights as soon as you give them the product, you just got paid for nothing more than taking the images, no more touching them no edits. You make up for in volume 200 teams at $200 a pop for 20-30 mins a shoot depending on the sport. Not bad for a weekens work.Cheer runs about 2.5 minutes per routine. These images make no $ setting on your hard drive. Just keep in mind you need to be setup properly to turn this around. If done properly you can make a living at it. Most do not know how to do it properly.


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glumpy
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Nov 17, 2012 01:52 |  #41
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J.Napier wrote in post #15253991 (external link)
These images make no $ setting on your hard drive.

Many people here don't even get that concept.
They say they are in business but clearly their Pride and ego takes precedence over making a buck.

Maybe I was lucky in learning my lesson years ago.
Back in the days when I was doing wedding on film the mentality was " Don't sell your negatives. They are your work, your art your soul...."
Did I get suckered for that one! :oops:

3 months after the couple got married I could have probably made an extra 25% min on my coverages ( which were upper end of the market) by selling the negs. 5-10 years after when the couple barely look at their wedding pics or are no longer together, the value of the negs was less than zero because I had to pay to get rid of the shed full of the things I had which were useless to me.

Lucky I woke up before it was too late and did manage to get real good money for some of them. I now include a set of digital originals in all my coverages. I'm able to get a LOT more for my coverages than just the usual inclusions would be valued at because I put in the originals.

All the ego maniacs around me are still crapping on about their art and Never giving giving out RAW files etc while I'm making a lot more and winning jobs off them left right and centre.

Still waiting for my reputation to be ruined and all that because someone took an image to a cheap lab and got a Dud print but I' have been waiting for that for over 10 years now and it still hasn't happened. :rolleyes:

Just keep in mind you need to be setup properly to turn this around. If done properly you can make a living at it. Most do not know how to do it properly.

Most don't even understand the concept properly. :rolleyes:
Too worried about someone making an extra print from their images that they never would have paid for in the first place.


From RDKirk: First, let me check the forum heading...yes, it does say "Business of Photography" and not "Hobby of Photography." Okay. So we're talking about making money, not about hobbies. By "business" I am presuming activities that pay expenses and produce a profit over the long term.

  
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Best way to sell for multiple football games
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