Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 21 Nov 2012 (Wednesday) 17:02
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Flash at Church?

 
cbknight
Goldmember
Avatar
1,767 posts
Likes: 4
Joined Aug 2009
Location: East Texas
     
Nov 23, 2012 13:33 |  #46

PeaceFire wrote in post #15279977 (external link)
Learning on someone's wedding day is not the time to be learning how to use flash. Learning flash after you've been hired as someone's wedding photographer should not be the time you should be learning flash. I don't get this idea that people have that weddings are easy and fun. They are a lot of work and very time consuming to be something you do just for "fun". They're also where you're going to get sued if you screw something up.

I don't think its rude for professional wedding photographers, who trained and have worked hard to learn their trade, to be a little put off when someone doesn't even know the basics and wants to shoot weddings.


Nor do I. I also feel the same way. What I said is what is done is done. I think with Practice (Before wedding date) she can pull it off satisfactory. I also believe as established wedding photographers, they should do more than scold her when it is already set and a done deal. Mistakes were made obviously, but it doesn't change the facts.


Craig
4K Photography Studio
[/URL]

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
cbknight
Goldmember
Avatar
1,767 posts
Likes: 4
Joined Aug 2009
Location: East Texas
     
Nov 23, 2012 13:42 |  #47

Also, some that are scolding often ask for advice in the forums on weddings they have already booked (if you look at their history) yet have some amazing images on website or posted within the forums. As I said, we all have concerns no matter how experienced we may be.


Craig
4K Photography Studio
[/URL]

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Hogloff
Cream of the Crop
7,606 posts
Likes: 415
Joined Apr 2003
Location: British Columbia
     
Nov 23, 2012 15:41 |  #48
bannedPermanent ban

cbknight wrote in post #15279783 (external link)
Man oh man....:D....wish I would have popped out of the womb knowing all about flash. Would have saved me years of practice. Everyone has to learn at sometime.....well, except those gifted with the knowledge from birth.

Yeh...but you don't learn at a wedding. You should have the skills to accomplish the job before taking on the job. That is what a professional is all about.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Lady ­ Tori
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
335 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Apr 2011
Location: England.
     
Nov 23, 2012 15:47 as a reply to  @ cbknight's post |  #49

Not that I should even have to explain myself but the reason I booked it is because I have over 8 months to prepare, so should I need to acquire a flash again (which I will be anyway), I will have plenty of time to prepare and practice beforehand.

Just to get things clear, I shoot families for a living on location, the client is WELL AWARE of this, and in this line of work I've not ever needed a flash and nor would I intend to use one (hate all you want about that fact, everyone does things their own way and if it works then there's no problem). But considering I have plenty of time to learn, I'm going to do so to give the client perfect wedding pictures. I would never jump in being unprepared, hence why I asked in the first place.

So you can all quit jumping on my back now. I came here to ask for advice just like I'm sure all of you have and still do, so I appreciate those of you who have actually tried to help.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
JohnB57
Goldmember
1,507 posts
Likes: 20
Joined Jul 2010
Location: Holmfirth, Yorkshire, England
     
Nov 23, 2012 16:02 |  #50

Don't be put off by the reluctance of some to provide uncritical advice - I'm afraid you gave certain people an excuse to be condescending. And I hope the learning curve and the gig itself go smoothly.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
stayhumble
Goldmember
1,328 posts
Joined Nov 2010
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
     
Nov 23, 2012 16:06 |  #51
bannedPermanent ban

first and foremost, contact the venue and ask if they allow it. If they say no, go from there.

and its not going to hurt to learn flash. I often find when people say they are only a natural light photogarphers, its an excuse of really saying they don't know how to use flash to their advantage. Its a poor cop-out and you are creating a disability for yourself.

They reason you have never used a flash is probably all your situations and environments are the same. Same setting, lighting and time. Make your photos more dynamic and learn simple flash. It's actually very easy and you dont have to be scared of the photo looking unnatural. Thats the whole thing with light control, you can manipulate it to be anything you want, even to have natural looking light when its not available.


GOod luck. have fun!


There are no rules for a good photograph and there are no excuses for a bad one.
SELLING:40D, 50D, 10-22, Tamron 17-50 non VC, 5D, 14MM II, 24-105, 70-200 f/4 IS, 430EX, 530EX (ALL MINT W/Box)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sapearl
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
15,573 posts
Gallery: 63 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 269
Joined Dec 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
     
Nov 23, 2012 16:29 |  #52

Lady Tori wrote in post #15280485 (external link)
Not that I should even have to explain myself but the reason I booked it is because I have over 8 months to prepare, so should I need to acquire a flash again (which I will be anyway), I will have plenty of time to prepare and practice beforehand.

Just to get things clear, I shoot families for a living on location, the client is WELL AWARE of this, and in this line of work I've not ever needed a flash and nor would I intend to use one (hate all you want about that fact, everyone does things their own way and if it works then there's no problem). But considering I have plenty of time to learn, I'm going to do so to give the client perfect wedding pictures. I would never jump in being unprepared, hence why I asked in the first place.

So you can all quit jumping on my back now. I came here to ask for advice just like I'm sure all of you have and still do, so I appreciate those of you who have actually tried to help.

I'm sure you will do just fine Tory - that's a good amount of time to integrate it into your workflow and do a little experimentation. I've looked at your galleries and you have some very nice compositions and group arrangements. That added bit of fill flash to a good exposure will make good pictures better and open up unpleasant shadows and reduce the typical bags and racoon eyes that sometime appear with poor lighting.

To answer your earlier question though - yest, I have done a couple of weddings with only natural light: They were bright churches with nice, even, diffuse light, but I was very fortunate in that regard. Most of my churches are pretty dim, or have lousy down-spots that cause ugly pools of bright lighting mixed with shadows. The flash evens this out.

Indoors I will typically run the camera in Manual, set my desired aperture, drag the shutter, and let the flash add a pleasant fill. Many times it's so dim the in-camera meter is useless, so I just let the ETTL on the 580ex sort it out.


GEAR LIST
MY WEBSITE (external link)- MY GALLERIES (external link)- MY BLOG (external link)
Artists Archives of the Western Reserve (external link) - Board

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Lady ­ Tori
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
335 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Apr 2011
Location: England.
     
Nov 23, 2012 16:36 as a reply to  @ sapearl's post |  #53

Thanks guys. I look forward to the experimenting! :)




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sapearl
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
15,573 posts
Gallery: 63 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 269
Joined Dec 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
     
Nov 23, 2012 16:44 |  #54

Here is an example of a really dark reception venue, complicated by white tuxedos and bridal gown.

I first tried to shoot this natural light with fast light and the quality of the light was just plain ugly.... not to mention the terrible down shadows caused by the lighting. For this shot I bounced the 580ex with the little white card extended, 1/40 second (Manual) f/6.3 and ISO 800. The flash did a better job of evening out the light and producing a very usable image.


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


GEAR LIST
MY WEBSITE (external link)- MY GALLERIES (external link)- MY BLOG (external link)
Artists Archives of the Western Reserve (external link) - Board

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
scorpio_e
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
7,402 posts
Gallery: 3 photos
Likes: 258
Joined Aug 2007
Location: Pa
     
Nov 24, 2012 09:27 |  #55

Lady Tori wrote in post #15274034 (external link)
Has anyone else not used flash in church and the images turned out fine?

Yes but the churches with better natural light look better.


www.steelcityphotograp​hy.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Fernando
Goldmember
Avatar
1,628 posts
Likes: 4
Joined Jan 2007
Location: Round Rock, TX
     
Nov 24, 2012 11:57 |  #56

One other thing to keep in mind. You might have a better time of it in the wedding or flash sections. Often things in this section get very black and white as to the professionalism, or lack thereof, perceived.


Fuji convert - Ping me if you have any Fuji gear or legacy glass you're moving.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tonyniev
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
11,453 posts
Gallery: 3 photos
Likes: 681
Joined Dec 2009
Location: Las Vegas
     
Nov 24, 2012 12:06 |  #57

Lady Tori wrote in post #15280635 (external link)
Thanks guys. I look forward to the experimenting! :)

Lady Lori, experiment with various flash diffussers, some may give you the "natural"look you are looking for....many would say Gary Fongs with silver reflectors are great, other use bounce modifiers, while the wedding shooters at Venetian hotel in Vegas, they shoot like 5 to 10 weddings a day :-), use simple stofens for fill ins, even at the wedding I attended was shoot at twilight, they used their flash pointed up with the stofes, which I copied and got nice results.


Cheers,
Tony
Leica M10 & M3
Sony A7R & A6000
Canon 5D2 & 7D

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sapearl
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
15,573 posts
Gallery: 63 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 269
Joined Dec 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
     
Nov 24, 2012 12:28 |  #58

It's a great idea to experiment with bouncing flash, using fill cards and other INEXPENSIVE devices to see what sort of results you can achieve. I believe you had experience with a 580ex? That has a slide out white card which can do a great deal when bouncing in certain circumstances.

I would NOT spend a lot of money on modifiers though - there are some real gimmicks out there that have marginal effectiveness other than being good at sucking the $$$ out of your wallet. I do actually own a Stoffen, but only use it in certain circumstances, indoors, with walls and ceilings that are close, and never outdoors where it has no effectiveness other than to drain your flash.


GEAR LIST
MY WEBSITE (external link)- MY GALLERIES (external link)- MY BLOG (external link)
Artists Archives of the Western Reserve (external link) - Board

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
smorter
Goldmember
Avatar
4,506 posts
Likes: 18
Joined Nov 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
     
Nov 24, 2012 19:42 |  #59

imo flash is used not when there is not enough light, but when the light quality is not good enough

Most churches are very good, however others absolutely need flash because of some window or massive opening in the background

Some examples

Ambient Light 1:

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO


Ambient Light 2:
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO


Flash 1 (note how there would have been a massive blown out background if natural light was used only):
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO

Wedding Photography Melbourneexternal link
Reviews: 85LII

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
smclaren
Member
Avatar
213 posts
Joined Mar 2009
Location: London
     
Nov 25, 2012 00:44 |  #60

Lady Tori wrote in post #15273689 (external link)
Opps, sorry.

Canon 5D MK II
Canon 24-70 f/2 II
Canon 135mm f/2
Canon 85mm f/1.2

Ideally I would like to avoid the flash. I'm not sure yet if the church allows it, I've only just booked the wedding so I'm preparing early lol.

Why not take the 5D and 24-70 f2.8 along to the church roughly the same time of day and run some test shots? It is never a good idea to speculate if there are likely to be issues or not. Go,and find out, and take some notes of the settings.

A lot of the time the Vicar is usually there and you will be able to introduce yourself, and it presents an opportunity to find out the dos and don'ts of that particular vicar. We have found some vicars exceedingly helpful to the point of showing you around the church and highlighting great vantage points for your photography.

The reason in the UK that a lot of churches will not allow flash is that they believe it detracts from the solemnness of the ceremony.

Hopefully your public liability and indemnity insurance to cover weddings is fully up to date.

Have a great shoot.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

7,492 views & 0 likes for this thread
Flash at Church?
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is bushpilot
889 guests, 221 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.