Tips for Boring or Dark Wedding Ceremony Venues?

^ what he said.. most wedding pros (I'm not one of them) use full frame (5D2,5D3) while some use 7D (for crop).

If you intend to shoot an entire wedding with 450D + 17-50 tammy, then you may have the wrong idea about wedding / event photography. Sure, 450D can take pictures, after all its a DSLR, but the quality will definitely lack.. Harder to autofocus in the dark and crap high ISO capabilities are the two main problems you will run into.

If the 450D is indeed what you're using, Sovern, go grab (at the very least) a used canon 5d classic (~700).

Sovern wrote in post #15333970
If the venue does not permit flash then why bother shooting? The photos will more than likely come out bad if you're using nothing but church ambient. Good lighting is key. If the walls are dark or colored that's easy to fix, just change the WB in PP. Dark walls can still be bounced off as long as they're glossy.

Why bother shooting? Because you are being paid to shoot thats why. Brides don't pay us to make excuses.

Heres a couple of shots I did in a church where my iso was 3200, aperture f/2 and my shutter speed was 1/80. No flash was allowed. And this wasn't the darkest church I've shot in.

I'm surprised with how many of you run into no-flash rules at churches. I have yet to have a church not allow me to use flashes for the ceremony. It seems most people have the same idea with ugly venues though, just shoot close and let the DOF kill the background.

Obviously if you can't add light, it is just a matter of cranking iso up and using small apertures, your hands are tied.

Christopher Steven b wrote in post #15334077
^ If you're shooting weddings with a 450D, I can see why you're alarmed at the prospect of shooting dimly lit venues. It may very well be that you do not have the adequate gear to do this kind of work.

Not true, what did they do back in the days of the 10D? Also what about the 5Dc? Lots of full time wedding pros use the 5Dc and won;t push the iso past 1600 and there's one guy on here that shoots some of the best wedding photography I've seen with a 400D.

I'm not afraid to push my xsi to 1600 iso and use f2.8 if need be but the quality of light will be questionable even with a full frame 5D3 pushing an iso of 12800....the lighting will more than likely be flat and you won;t be able to highlight your subjects.

Photography and any art is all light. If my clients told me no flash I guess I'd be using video light and/or pushing my iso to 1600 even with a 5Dc.

5W0L3 wrote in post #15334121
^ what he said.. most wedding pros (I'm not one of them) use full frame (5D2,5D3) while some use 7D (for crop).

If you intend to shoot an entire wedding with 450D + 17-50 tammy, then you may have the wrong idea about wedding / event photography. Sure, 450D can take pictures, after all its a DSLR, but the quality will definitely lack.. Harder to autofocus in the dark and crap high ISO capabilities are the two main problems you will run into.

Some use lower cameras than me....I intend on shooting weddings and I dont know who told you that the xsi has any less of an ability to focus in low light....it has the same center af 2.8 sensitivity as the 5Dc and the same autofocusing system as the 5Dii.....with a fast f2.8 lens I can auto focus in very dim light as I already tested this.

I plan on shooting weddings with fast primes and two 5Dc's though and my 450D will be a backup.

Christopher Steven b wrote in post #15334154
If the 450D is indeed what you're using, Sovern, go grab (at the very least) a used canon 5d classic (~700).

This is good advice and exactly what I'm doing. I'm going the 5Dc route and letting my assistant second shoot with my 450D and Tamron while I use primes on two 5Dc body's.

@Sovern:

The aesthetic standards in terms of, e.g., how much noise is tolerable in a photo, has changed considerably in the last 40 years.

In optimal conditions, you're correct that the 450D won't produce images significantly different in terms of quality from a 5d (assuming we are talking viewing on a screen or maybe even 8x10 print). But in challenging conditions, the 450D--not to pick on this camera alone--will not be conducive to producing results that, say, the canon 5d can. Shooting a wedding in a professional capacity means being able to rise up to meet these challenging conditions when they do (and they will) arise.

Sovern, no offence or disrespect to you or anyone else.. but would you mind sharing these wedding photographs taken with a 400D / 450D? (indoor shots in low light of course).

Sovern wrote in post #15334567
Photography and any art is all light. If my clients told me no flash I guess I'd be using video light and/or pushing my iso to 1600 even with a 5Dc.

Yes, photography is all about the light. But using video light is still a no-no in many churches.

jcolman wrote in post #15334659
Yes, photography is all about the light. But using video light is still a no-no in many churches.

Where do you shoot weddings at? I know here in NY and the tristate area it's almost a known fact that photographers will be using off camera flash. All of the well knwon top cream of the crop professionals around here all use flash at the weddings around here even at the ceremonys and they charge $5,000 just for the wedding to be covered. I can give you a link to a few of the guys websites (some of them are very well known such as neilvn).

The xsi shows very little difference from iso 100 to iso 1600 so I don't know why that guy said the standards have changed. I mean do you see a huge difference between these two photos? One was shot at iso 100 the other iso 1600, last shot was shot at iso 800.

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/79530042@N03/8​245532187/

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/79530042@N03/8​245525907/

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/79530042@N03/8​249454979/

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/79530042@N03/8​249455143/

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/79530042@N03/8​249455291/

Sovern wrote in post #15335432
Where do you shoot weddings at? I know here in NY and the tristate area it's almost a known fact that photographers will be using off camera flash. All of the well knwon top cream of the crop professionals around here all use flash at the weddings around here even at the ceremonys and they charge $5,000 just for the wedding to be covered. I can give you a link to a few of the guys websites (some of them are very well known such as neilvn).

I shoot mainly in NC, but I've shot all up and down the east coast. Many churches here do not permit the use of flash. Jump over to FM forum and ask the crew there if they use flashes during the ceremony. You will get a resounding "no".

I use flash on just about every other aspect of the wedding, but not during the ceremony.

@sovern: how many weddings have you photographed ?

jcolman wrote in post #15335475
I shoot mainly in NC, but I've shot all up and down the east coast. Many churches here do not permit the use of flash. Jump over to FM forum and ask the crew there if they use flashes during the ceremony. You will get a resounding "no".

I use flash on just about every other aspect of the wedding, but not during the ceremony.

Yea I heard that using no flash during ceremony is very common, using a fast prime like the 85 1.8 seems like the best bet then. Some professional top known photographers still use flash even at the ceremony though but it's different throughout the US. The east coast where I live tends to be more liberal and modern so they don't mind flash as much as the states down south would.

Christopher Steven b wrote in post #15335497
@sovern: how many weddings have you photographed ?

Does it manner how many weddings that I photographed? You said that the noise difference between the different isos of an xsi would be drastic compared to the 5Dc. I posted comparison shots of the xsi at iso 100 and iso 1600 and both are viewable at 100%. The noise difference from iso 100 to iso 1600 is slight on these cameras that have sensors with less megapixels. The newer crop cameras tend to do worse in high iso situations and aren't as sharp because they are crammed with megapixels.

Heck, you could probably put a 300D in a top of the line wedding/portrait photographers hands and he would produce results better than some of the wedding photographers around here shooting with 5dmkiii's and L lenses. It's really whos behind the lens that counts. The guy that wrote the speedlite handbooks that you can find on Amazon is one of these photographers. The mans a genius he could shoot an entire wedding with a point and shoot and it would look better than most wedding photographers photos that were shot with gear costing over $3k just due to his ingenious nature and artistic quality's a long with a complete understanding of light.

Sovern wrote in post #15327424
I've never shot any weddings but I plan to so take my advice with a table spoon of salt. I'd personally invest in a camera bracket and quadruple up four YN560 II's which will cost you $240 for all 4 of them and I'd invest into battery packs for each one. I'd set each to full or half power and bounce if beforehand you know that bounce will result in reasonable results.

If that's not the case I'd have a bracket with a Lastolite Ezybox Hot Shoe Softbox Kit attached to it with a speedlite inside if bounce is not possible combined with high iso.

Or, for the same money you can have a Flashpoint 160WS strobe on a light stand with a soft box or umbrella, and a battery power-pack with a remote wireless trigger. Always better to use the right tool for the job than to cobble together something.

Of course I would avoid shooting flash during the ceremony. For this, invest in some fast glass with IS and shoot what you can. Get as close as you can without being annoying and combined with the wider aperture, it should throw most of the ugly background out of focus. Try to shoot at angles that allow plenty of space on the other side of your subjects before you get into the ugliness. It's important to remember, it may be ugly but it is their wedding and their memories you are capturing. They may cuddle around your photos in 20 years and laugh at how ugly the place was so don't worry so much about it. Just do your best.

When all else fails, stage it afterwords and use good soft strobe lighting combined with the fastest shutter speed you can sync which will light your subject but render the space behind them dark because of the inverse square law.

Your experience is relevant here. It is relevant because you are basically getting good advice from folks who have actually shot weddings. I'm a babe in the industry at only 56 or 57 weddings, but others in the thread have even more experience. It is fine to challenge the advice and suggestions we give you, but just try to understand how hilarious it is given that you are speaking from a position of, let's say, limited experience.

You showed examples of photos taken where there actually was light going on. Show us a shot in light such that at f/2 ISO 1600 1/60 you're underexposing by a stop. Then push this a stop in post. That is literally how dim some churches are.

You make a reasonable argument about how gear matters less in the hands of a great and experienced photographer. I'd just ask: are you there yet ?

I'm not there yet either, so I at least give myself the best shot by having gear that will help me get by in the most challenging of circumstances.

Sovern wrote in post #15335514
Yea I heard that using no flash during ceremony is very common, using a fast prime like the 85 1.8 seems like the best bet then. Some professional top known photographers still use flash even at the ceremony though but it's different throughout the US. The east coast where I live tends to be more liberal and modern so they don't mind flash as much as the states down south would.

Does it manner how many weddings that I photographed? You said that the noise difference between the different isos of an xsi would be drastic compared to the 5Dc. I posted comparison shots of the xsi at iso 100 and iso 1600 and both are viewable at 100%. The noise difference from iso 100 to iso 1600 is slight on these cameras that have sensors with less megapixels. The newer crop cameras tend to do worse in high iso situations and aren't as sharp because they are crammed with megapixels.

Heck, you could probably put a 300D in a top of the line wedding/portrait photographers hands and he would produce results better than some of the wedding photographers around here shooting with 5dmkiii's and L lenses. It's really whos behind the lens that counts. The guy that wrote the speedlite handbooks that you can find on Amazon is one of these photographers. The mans a genius he could shoot an entire wedding with a point and shoot and it would look better than most wedding photographers photos that were shot with gear costing over $3k just due to his ingenious nature and artistic quality's a long with a complete understanding of light.

kfreels wrote in post #15335857
Or, for the same money you can have a Flashpoint 160WS strobe on a light stand with a soft box or umbrella, and a battery power-pack with a remote wireless trigger. Always better to use the right tool for the job than to cobble together something.

Of course I would avoid shooting flash during the ceremony. For this, invest in some fast glass with IS and shoot what you can. Get as close as you can without being annoying and combined with the wider aperture, it should throw most of the ugly background out of focus. Try to shoot at angles that allow plenty of space on the other side of your subjects before you get into the ugliness. It's important to remember, it may be ugly but it is their wedding and their memories you are capturing. They may cuddle around your photos in 20 years and laugh at how ugly the place was so don't worry so much about it. Just do your best.

When all else fails, stage it afterwords and use good soft strobe lighting combined with the fastest shutter speed you can sync which will light your subject but render the space behind them dark because of the inverse square law.

Good advice here, actually I personally think that I'd rather just shoot with one flash for bounce right on camera if it was allowed combined with high iso.

Christopher Steven b wrote in post #15335915
Your experience is relevant here. It is relevant because you are basically getting good advice from folks who have actually shot weddings. I'm a babe in the industry at only 56 or 57 weddings, but others in the thread have even more experience. It is fine to challenge the advice and suggestions we give you, but just try to understand how hilarious it is given that you are speaking from a position of, let's say, limited experience.

You showed examples of photos taken where there actually was light going on. Show us a shot in light such that at f/2 ISO 1600 1/60 you're underexposing by a stop. Then push this a stop in post. That is literally how dim some churches are.

You make a reasonable argument about how gear matters less in the hands of a great and experienced photographer. I'd just ask: are you there yet ?

I'm not there yet either, so I at least give myself the best shot by having gear that will help me get by in the most challenging of circumstances.

You make a good point, shooting something at iso 1600 and still being underexposed you're going to run into trouble. Honestly I know for a fact that I hold my gear back as most photographers do but good gear can also help a photographer just like how you said if you need an iso higher than 1600 than you're limited by your camera.

The thing is *if* you can raise the iso high enough to the point where you're not underexposed and slightly to the right your images will mostly be clean up to a certain point (on the new crop DSLR's I'm not sure what this point may be. I think more than likely iso 6400 on them would be unusable due to the high MP count so probably a limit of 3200 for wedding or portrait photography properly exposed). So in that case where no flash is allowed a full frame capable of clean images up to iso 6400 like the 5dmkii and fast primes would be needed so I agree with you.