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Thread started 07 Dec 2012 (Friday) 08:01
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PSA: Gate Hooks

 
gakoenig
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Dec 07, 2012 08:01 |  #1

In another thread, I mentioned that Luma had killed off our gate hook project. During testing, we happened upon a failure mode for gate hooks that sapped our confidence in using them for just about anything.

The other co-founder at Luma, Duncan, made a video that gives a few examples of how this issue can happen with a number of gate hooks.

http://vimeo.com/55080​797 (external link)

Now, I want to be clear - we aren't trying to scare monger everyone into thinking that the basic gate hook is evil and you should yank them off your straps. Like the video says; it is *very* rare for a gate hook to get snagged in this configuration. Now that you've seen it and are aware of it, the chances of it happening to you in the field are now even rarer.

As a business though, Luma simply can't put out a product that we don't have absolute faith in. Even if 1/1000 customers ran into this, those are still a handful of emails of a kind we simply never want to receive.

Interesting side note - all the video was shot on a Sony RX1, and it is every bit as good as your deepest dreams could make it out to be.


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juanpafer
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Dec 07, 2012 09:35 |  #2

I appreciate the time Luma takes into design AND TESTING before launching, even if that means loosing sales during the Holiday season.
I need a strap that I can rely on 100% of the time. If it has a quick detachment system, it will be a Luma strap.


Juan

  
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rick_reno
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Dec 07, 2012 09:53 |  #3

Good video, glad I don't use them.




  
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joeblack2022
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Dec 07, 2012 11:36 |  #4

So that's what happened to my Lowepro bag (as I mentioned in the other thread)!

Not directly related, but just yesterday I saw another failure where the tripod mount attachment (older Black Rapid one) came apart and dropped a Nikon D4 with 70-200 attached right onto concrete. :eek:

It was a sound I do not wish on anyone and especially not me!! The camera and lens seemed fine as they fell straight down without twisting and landing on any of the sensitive parts but ouch...

I guess they call them quick disconnects for a reason!!!


Joel

  
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phonedrn8
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Dec 07, 2012 12:22 |  #5

good PSA




  
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LPMM
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Dec 07, 2012 12:45 |  #6

Op/tech warned me of the same thing when I asked about using their swivel hooks, that while highly unlikely, it may be possible for the hook to release under the right conditions. Great video and why I am not trusting my gear with gated hooks.


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Lowner
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Dec 07, 2012 12:56 |  #7

Not sure what is meant by "gate hook" but if these look anything like the older design of the clips used on marine lifelines then yes, some years ago it was found that these had a history of popping open at just the wrong moment! It boiled down to the hooks twisting as they started to take a load, putting the sprung loaded bar under an opening tension.

The marine industry simply added an aditional sprung bar which is set at 90 degress to the opening bar, literally holding it shut. The downside is a slightly more involved opening process but given the options its worth it.


Richard

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xeodragon
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Dec 07, 2012 12:58 as a reply to  @ LPMM's post |  #8

I like how Luma shows us this sort of stuff - keep up the great work! Ill be supporting this company for a long time :).




  
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luciddreamer
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Dec 07, 2012 13:20 |  #9

I can't believe this was a surprise to you guys. Pretty commonly known problem with the system. Used to do this trick to one on some strap when I was a kid. Maybe you should hire a kid to do your testing, they aren't set in their ways like we adults are. If there's a problem, they'll find it quick.


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KhanhD
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Dec 07, 2012 13:57 |  #10

Page not found.


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Calicajun
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Dec 07, 2012 14:32 as a reply to  @ KhanhD's post |  #11

Interesting video, glad I don't use gate hooks.


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Tanglefoot47
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Dec 07, 2012 15:45 |  #12

gakoenig wrote in post #15337231 (external link)
In another thread, I mentioned that Luma had killed off our gate hook project. During testing, we happened upon a failure mode for gate hooks that sapped our confidence in using them for just about anything.

The other co-founder at Luma, Duncan, made a video that gives a few examples of how this issue can happen with a number of gate hooks.

http://vimeo.com/55080​797 (external link)

Now, I want to be clear - we aren't trying to scare monger everyone into thinking that the basic gate hook is evil and you should yank them off your straps. Like the video says; it is *very* rare for a gate hook to get snagged in this configuration. Now that you've seen it and are aware of it, the chances of it happening to you in the field are now even rarer.

As a business though, Luma simply can't put out a product that we don't have absolute faith in. Even if 1/1000 customers ran into this, those are still a handful of emails of a kind we simply never want to receive.

Interesting side note - all the video was shot on a Sony RX1, and it is every bit as good as your deepest dreams could make it out to be.


Exactly why I don't use the gate I did a couple years ago and it would pop loose after a couple times I stopped using.




  
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Echo63
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Dec 07, 2012 21:13 |  #13

I had a Blackrapid clip exhibit this failure mode when attached to a 70-200.
Lens fell a bit over a metre, and busted the IS mechanism - to the tune of $1200

I have been aware of this happening though, in fact it's how i get the clips off in a hurry
I should have screwed the gates shut.
(this is also the reason that climbers use screwgate/autolok carabiners when attaching themselves to a rope - having a carabiner disconnect when you are relying on it could be more than expensive or annoying - it could cost your life)


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KhanhD
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Dec 07, 2012 23:52 |  #14

Echo63 wrote in post #15340000 (external link)
I had a Blackrapid clip exhibit this failure mode when attached to a 70-200.
Lens fell a bit over a metre, and busted the IS mechanism - to the tune of $1200

The BR Clip can only produce this phenomenon if you dont lock the screwgate.


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Echo63
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Dec 08, 2012 00:52 |  #15

KhanhD wrote in post #15340384 (external link)
The BR Clip can only produce this phenomenon if you dont lock the screwgate.

Yes - I was in a hurry and didn't close the screwgate.

2 lines down from the bit you quoted was "I should have screwed the gates shut"
It's was mostly my fault, I should have taken the time to screw the gate shut, and/or checked that the clip didn't capsize and come unstuck.

I would love to see a manufacturer start using "QR cups" like rifle slings, and mounting the cups into manfrotto and Arca tripod plates.
They are certainly strong enough, easily released but not accidentally.

One of the sling strap company's was using something similar


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PSA: Gate Hooks
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