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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 15 Dec 2012 (Saturday) 19:17
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New shutter - problematic or just routine?

 
les24preludes
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Dec 15, 2012 19:17 |  #1

I plan on getting a used body - probably 40D or 50D - and I notice some for sale already have replacement shutters. I have a few questions:

1) Is fitting a new shutter an easy job, or does it risk throwing some parameters out of alignment unless it's done very carefully?

2) Would you anticipate any differences between a Canon fitter and an independent person/lab?

3) If a camera already has a new shutter and we presume 50-100,000 actuations, are there any other parts of a body that are also at risk of wearing out?

Just wanting to know if high-mileage cameras should be avoided or if a new shutter is a simple matter and gives the camera another few years of good life.

Pros and cons?




  
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mikepj
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Dec 16, 2012 01:08 |  #2

Shutters are replaced fairly frequently on non-pro bodies. I had the shutter die on my 450D after about 30k shots. Canon treated it as a fairly routine repair. After I got the camera back, it worked just as it did before.

When replacing the shutter, you are working pretty close to the image sensor, so I imagine it has to be done pretty carefully so as not to scratch the sensor. Other than proximity to the sensor, I can't imagine you have to worry about much though. If the shutter isn't installed right, most likely you would have light leakage that would be showing up in darker shots. You would notice that right away.

The only other moving part I can think of is the mirror assembly. That is separate from the shutter, and if the shutter has moved enough to wear out, then I imagine the mirror can't be too far behind. So far, the mirror has been fine on my 450D, but every couple hundred shots I take with it, it sounds like the mirror hesitates. I've gone another 10k frames on the new shutter though without any problems though, so who knows...


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rick_reno
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Dec 16, 2012 01:17 |  #3

I'd look closely at the overall condition of the body with a replacement shutter, and use that to make the call on what to buy. Its an easy procedure to place them.




  
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joeseph
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Dec 16, 2012 02:18 |  #4

mikepj wrote in post #15372089 (external link)
When replacing the shutter, you are working pretty close to the image sensor

when working on the shutter (from the front) the sensor's already been removed (from the back) so not a worry there...

replacing the shutter involves removing almost everything from the camera frame so I'd say it's not "easy" but it's a routine job for the Canon techs. There is definately scope for misaligning things if not done carefully.

The Canon techs would probably have access to better calibration equipment, so if it's a choice between Canon & Walmart, I'd choose Canon every time (just kidding - I know Walmart don't repair stuff!)

That's not to say other repair places aren't good or great at what they do, it's just that there's a certain amount of technical info that Canon has that they are very, very careful not to release publicly.

In terms of other parts likely-to-wear-out, like anything mechanical, the mirrorbox does quite a bit of work over it's lifetime (and quite expensive part too) but you don't hear much about these failing so probably not a worry either. Me, I'd be a bit wary of buying a camera claimed to have had it's shutter replaced unless the seller could show receipts for the work.

p.s. pictures of my 1D MK II while I replaced the shutter Here (external link)

to be honest, apart from replacing weather-resist seals, I don't think the pro bodies would be much different than others in terms of what's involved in replacing shutters, the design is much the same in most of the DSLR range.


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Garry ­ Gibson
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Dec 16, 2012 09:31 |  #5

I am basing my comments on nothing but my gut instinct after owning several Canon EOS bodies.
I don't know what your financial situation is, but if you look there are a fair amount of 40D bodies around at good prices. 40D is a great body.

If I was buying a 1D pro body with a new shutter it wouldn't faze me at all. But a 40 or 50D body, unless that shutter had failed very prematurely, my concern would be the wear on the rest of the body if you the shutter got up to the 100k mark.

So I guess I would have to be saving a lot of money on one with a replaced shutter instead of buying
a "gently used" body.

Good luck, again, I have no scientific evidence that I'm right, just a feeling.


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mikepj
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Dec 16, 2012 12:23 |  #6

Interesting that the sensor is already out when the shutter is being replaced. That makes a lot of sense practically.

I also agree that it's not too often you hear about mirror boxes failing. With how rapidly they move, that's surprising to me. Then again, shutter curtains have to be pretty thin to move as fast as they do while also having low power requirements.

My point about it not being as much of an issue on pro bodies was simply referring to the more durable shutters in high end bodies that are meant to last for 150-400k actuations. Even if they don't last their expected lifetime, it takes a long time to take that many photos. Of course my 450D is supposedly rated at 100k actuations and it barely made 30.


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Luckless
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Dec 16, 2012 12:53 |  #7

mikepj wrote in post #15373437 (external link)
Interesting that the sensor is already out when the shutter is being replaced. That makes a lot of sense practically.

I also agree that it's not too often you hear about mirror boxes failing. With how rapidly they move, that's surprising to me. Then again, shutter curtains have to be pretty thin to move as fast as they do while also having low power requirements.

My point about it not being as much of an issue on pro bodies was simply referring to the more durable shutters in high end bodies that are meant to last for 150-400k actuations. Even if they don't last their expected lifetime, it takes a long time to take that many photos. Of course my 450D is supposedly rated at 100k actuations and it barely made 30.

How fast does a mirror assembly move anyway? I'm guessing far slower than most shutters are able to.

Also consider the wear effect from a fast shutter vs a slow shutter. 100 000 frames at 1/125th is probably less stress on the system than 20 000 1/4000th frames.


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BigAl007
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Dec 16, 2012 13:03 |  #8

Actually the shutter blades/curtains move at the same speed at all shutter speed settings. What changes is the time between the first curtain starting and the second curtain starting.

Alan.


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mikepj
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Dec 16, 2012 13:06 as a reply to  @ Luckless's post |  #9

True. The mirror is much slower than the shutter, but a lot bigger too. Mirror blackout times on the 5D2 and 5D3 are around 100-150ms. So about 1/8s.

I think the shutter curtains always move at the same speed, regardless of exposure time. There are differences in timing between the 2 curtain movements, but once a curtain is triggered, it moves at the same speed as any other frame. There might be extra wear when both curtains are in motion at the same time though. In that case, you would expect every photo taken with a faster exposure time than your shutter's flash sync to produce more wear. I don't know if that is true though.


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Luckless
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Dec 16, 2012 15:38 |  #10

BigAl007 wrote in post #15373596 (external link)
Actually the shutter blades/curtains move at the same speed at all shutter speed settings. What changes is the time between the first curtain starting and the second curtain starting.

Alan.

Interesting. I can hear a pitch change in my 7D's shutter based on speed that is inconsistent with mere timing and overlap of the two motions between 1/1, 1/100, 1/500, and the 1/4000\8000th range. I had merely guessed that was from having three or four shutter velocities, and the hardware picked between them based on the overall shutter speed requirements.

Now I'm curious what that change actually is... Anyone have half a dozen 7Ds they want to donate to 'science' so I can figure it out? (Chances of said 7Ds being returned in working order are slim to none...)


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