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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 17 Dec 2012 (Monday) 12:41
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7D all pictures are coming out with grain

 
jwcdds
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Dec 19, 2012 14:35 |  #16

What lens are you shooting with? If it has image stabilizer, did you let the IS "settle in" before taking the shot? Are you shooting with a UV filter? If so, have you tried taking off the UV filter to see if that makes a difference?

You photos definitely look soft and there does not seem to be any precision focus plane, so doesn't look front/back focused to me. Thus I'm asking what lens you're shooting with.


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ljason8eg
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Dec 19, 2012 14:36 |  #17

TurboABA wrote in post #15386290 (external link)
I tried to provide samples from various conditions (all shots as processed by camera... can share some RAW later if required)

Here we go!

The first two and last two look out of focus, but I can't see anywhere in those four shots that is sharp. What lens did you use for those?

The other three don't look too bad (you're always going to see noise at 100% view with the 7D) but you used ISO values much higher than necessary.

Do your RAW images look the same as far as the noise pattern goes? I know those images you've shared were processed in camera but that noise pattern looks totally different than what my 7D produces.


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guntoter
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Dec 19, 2012 14:58 |  #18

Lincolnshire Poacher wrote in post #15377696 (external link)
The 7D is a supeeb camera. I use mine mainly for sports and wildlfe and I often need to up the ISO to maintain fast shutter speeds.

The camera has a steep learning curve and when you make that first transition from a consumer camera things can appear to unravel. The secret is practice, practice and more practice.

A couple of tips:

1) Always try to expose to the right. Pushing exposure in PP with the 7D will not result in the best image.
2) Shoot RAW to leave yourself the best possible chance of recovering the best shot from the resulting file;
3) In PP always, always adjust luminance if necessary before you sharpen. If you sharpen first, you will effectively highlight any noise. (This is good practice for any camera.)
4) Note that noise which is apparent or even obtrusive on the screen will not be anywhere near as obvious in printed format. I regularly exhibit prints from my 7D at sizes up to 12 x 18 inches without a visible trace of noise.


Totally agree about the luminance. That slider makes all the difference for my PP. However, I had not heard about adjusting it first before sharpening. I will try that, and thanks for the tip.


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mckinleypics
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Dec 19, 2012 15:10 |  #19

Seem to be a lot of these posts popping up lately. Everyone seems to be moving from the T3i to the 7D. Maybe I should sell my 7D and get the T3i? I really don't seem to have a problem with grain though. Here's a shot at 1600, no noise reduction, basically SOOC. I'm no pro but I've had the 7D since it came out and I think my keeper rate goes up and up. Stick with it.

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

IMG_0897 - Version 2 (external link) by mckinleypics (external link), on Flickr

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pig
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Dec 19, 2012 15:13 |  #20

TurboABA, i don't see any grain in your pics that can't be fixed with the luminance slider in LR. In addition to that, some of the shots you posted look out of focus and/or shot with a shutter speed that is too slow. For instance, your rally pics were shot at 1/400 @400mm. 1/400 is the bare minimum you should be shooting at for non-moving objects at that focal length.

As for the OOF shots, I agree with the others and wonder what lens you are using and if there is a problem with it.

I've heard that the 7D has a more aggressive AA filter than the rebels. I think that's why it does take more time to learn how to setup your camera and PP to work with noise. It's very rewarding once you've got the hang of it but it does take some practice.

Lastly, EVERY 7D owner should read this thread: https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1079217




  
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SVT ­ Wylde
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Dec 19, 2012 15:26 |  #21

I don't notice a lot of grain in my 60D photos. Is the 7D different than the T3i and 60D?




  
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dochollidayda
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Dec 19, 2012 17:45 |  #22

ljason8eg wrote in post #15386335 (external link)
The first two and last two look out of focus, but I can't see anywhere in those four shots that is sharp. What lens did you use for those?

The other three don't look too bad (you're always going to see noise at 100% view with the 7D) but you used ISO values much higher than necessary.

Do your RAW images look the same as far as the noise pattern goes? I know those images you've shared were processed in camera but that noise pattern looks totally different than what my 7D produces.

+1. My observation is very similar. I think more bits of information are needed. I see you shot these at F4? Did you do any post or are these just straight out of camera. I guess, trying to bring out the details (because so much of it is OOF) you are developing more noise along the way.

7D is a very capable camera, since I have upgraded from T2i, I can't imagine going back to it.

Its focusing system is state of the art, even though the camera is a few years old. While its DR and ISO performance is not as good as 5D II/III its still miles ahead of the Rebel series.


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TurboABA
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Dec 20, 2012 07:29 |  #23

ljason8eg wrote in post #15386335 (external link)
The first two and last two look out of focus, but I can't see anywhere in those four shots that is sharp. What lens did you use for those?

The other three don't look too bad (you're always going to see noise at 100% view with the 7D) but you used ISO values much higher than necessary.

Do your RAW images look the same as far as the noise pattern goes? I know those images you've shared were processed in camera but that noise pattern looks totally different than what my 7D produces.

First two and last two were shot with Tokina 80-400mm, no filter. Slow lens, bought used, and very slow (so I'm sure lens quality and user error combined are a huge factor)

The middle three were shot with Canon 24-105L, with a UV filter. Great lens, bought new, fast, etc. (thus better results)

All of those shots were left as they came out of the camera.

Here are some random RAW shots, shot with a Nifty Fifty prime. Please excuse the shots/subjects, as I'm just grabbing random pictures which I used for various other purposes (like documenting my tire blowout, selling some spare wheels, etc.)

https://dl.dropbox.com​/u/16186141/003.CR2 (external link)

https://dl.dropbox.com​/u/16186141/004.CR2 (external link)

https://dl.dropbox.com​/u/16186141/010.CR2 (external link)

I'm very certain that most of my issue is inproper settings and user error, but I just need "reasurrance" that my body is good and that I just need to concetrate on the human factor :)

Thank you all for the input.




  
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TurboABA
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Dec 20, 2012 07:31 |  #24

Forgot to mention.... the RAW shots also had a UV filter on the 50mm, and no IS existed on the 80-400mm shots. As for the 24-105L shots, IS was avalable but was not used.




  
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palmor
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Dec 20, 2012 07:43 |  #25

Take the UV filters off and try again. I've seen multiple times when UV filters effected the AF and IQ of the shots. Even if the UV filter worked fine on your other camera.

For the first set of shots you posted I actually see some (what appears to be) over sharpening or artifacts from NR. How do you process your files and what settings do you use (if in camera jpg what are your settings for sharpening, high ISO noise reduction etc)?

The shots of the rims/tires look fine to me (I can find sharp areas of focus). Those look much better. Keep posting an answering the questions and hopefully the community will be able to help you out (either with settings, technique or determining it is the camera :) )


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Elisha
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Dec 20, 2012 07:56 |  #26

Has everyone forgotten that the 7D has lots of noise in ISO 800 and below? The camera was tuned for high ISO.
Take a shot of the blue sky at ISO 400 and prepare to be disgusted!
The 60D using the same sensor fixed this issue.
As one of the early 7D adopters, I realized this pretty quick and you will see lots of reports of this back in 2009 and 2010.
It's nothing new!


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phreeky
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Dec 20, 2012 08:24 |  #27

The best recommendation I can give is to:
- shoot with a sharp lens; and
- don't sharpen your images unless you really have to

Ignore sharpness at 100%. If the image looks sharp at your viewing/print size then that's what matters. Sharpening amplifies noise - whether it's the in-camera JPEG or using your favourite RAW processing software.




  
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Lowner
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Dec 20, 2012 09:29 |  #28

phreeky,

I'd change that second recommendation to: don't sharpen more than necessary.

Thats because I think that all digital images need some sharpening.


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uOpt
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Dec 20, 2012 09:36 |  #29

rsimon1179 wrote in post #15377439 (external link)
I just upgraded from a Rebel t3i to a 7D.

With my rebel I was getting great crisp pictures and with my 7D I have yet to get a picture that is truly crisp and sharp without a ton of grain. Some look sharp until I put them in lightroom then it is grain city...very frustrating!

My ISO is not the key issue as I know most of the time it is when you say grain. I have shot at all different times of the day, with a soft box, bright light, dusk, etc. and at all different settings. Even my pictures at a 200 ISO in bright natural light are ridiculously full of grain and are not sharp at all. I have been using my auto focus and locking it down but still not getting great results.

I am using the lens that came in the kit which is the 28-135mm.

You realize the t3i and the 7d have the same sensor, right?

You can see noise in the raws in the 7d even at ISO100 if you e.g. shoot the sky.

For testing, the best way to compare is that you shoot both raw and let postprocessing sort out the jpeg making. That rules out differences in the camera's jpeg making. Of course you should also make sure that the noise reduction settings are the same for both cameras, but that doesn't affect raws.


My imagine composition sucks. I need a heavier lens.

  
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palmor
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Dec 20, 2012 09:57 |  #30

uOpt wrote in post #15389261 (external link)
Of course you should also make sure that the noise reduction settings are the same for both cameras, but that doesn't affect raws.

It may if he's using the Canon software to process his RAW files.


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7D all pictures are coming out with grain
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