Cheap ND Grad filter?

Would this be worth getting just as a "first ND Grad" so I can get a feel of the filter? What varies between this and say a LEE ND Grad in terms of final image quality?

http://www.ebay.com.au …Name=ADME:B:WNA​FP:AU:1123

I wouldn't waste my money buying that. It will make your photos look worse. Buy something like a B+W ND filter. I would probably get something like this. http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …mm_106_Solid_Ne​utral.html

Take Care,
Cheers, Patrick

In Photography Cheap is not the path. B+W is what you want.

Regards,

Saint, thanks for the link. Ive been wanting a ND filter and its tough to select in the sea of filters available. Thats a decent price too.

I like long exposures. I have been shooting sunrise's over lakes and ocean and would like more water blur. Its tough without the filter as I shrink my aperture all the way down with ISO 100 and still have a shutter speed that is too fast to blur the water.

Would you suggest the 1.8 you posted will be good for my needs? I'd hate to get a filter I dont need as I have done way too much spending this year and shouldnt even be buying this filter. I need a 77mm so the price is at $102 right now.

I should add that I shoot with a full frame with 17-40 usually on the wide end when I would use the filter. Is there a need for a thin filter to avoid vignetting? I recall reading this but dont see any 'thin' filters on B&H by B+W.

Do you want an ND filter, or a GND filter? You mentions ND Grad and the link supplied by saint was to a solid ND filter. There are screw on type grad ND filters out there but I wouldn't recommend them. You have zero control over where the grad line will be in the image.

azairvine, the bottom line is - you get what you pay for.

Cheaper filters usually have a minimal coating on one side of the glass (not both) and are of cheaper build with the glass not being parallel to the sensor, or varies too much in thickness. All of this negatively affects image quality with blurry out of focus areas, reflections and "ghosting" of bright lights, which is noticed as a matched reflection in the image.

Example: My 77mm CPL and ND filters cost about $100 each and my tripod and head costs about $500. Do not even look at anything cheaper.

As a newcomer to photography, you may be overwhelmed (as we all once were) with the cost of lenses, filters, and tripods. Trust me when I say: "the worst thing you can do is "go cheap" on any of these." Buy the fastest glass you can afford, the most expensive filters you can afford, or you'll always end up spending more over time than you would if you had just done it right the first time and cry once-pay once-and be done with it. Most importantly, photography is about IMAGE QUALITY and if you buy cheap you'll see crappy images and wonder what you are doing wrong when it is not you, but your gear. (Part of the formula for a quality image is Photographer talent + skill + timing + luck + location + gear)

Hope this helps!

Naturalist wrote in post #15401744
azairvine, the bottom line is - you get what you pay for.

Thanks guys.

If it's any consolation for my rep Doug, I just bought the following:

50mm f/1.4 USM
100mm f/2.8L USM IS
Speedlite 430EX II

For my 550D body.......ha!

Yeah, I really need to get quality filters. I'd like an ND and a ND Grad - the latter probably more necessary than the former. I'm trying to limit varying diameters on my lenses so I can avoid having to get too many lenses. I have only got a kit EF-S 18-55mm lens that can do portraits, so I don't want to spend big $$$ on a filter if I'd need another one when I got an EF 17-40 or 10-20.

Graduated ND filters are much more usable in the rectangular type, with a separate filter holder, that allows you to adjust the position of the horizon line.

I'd suggest the Cokin Graduated Gray as an inexpensive starter. If you get the P size filter and holder, you can later upgrade to better quality pretty easily. A number of manufacturers make filters to fit the Cokin P holders. This can accomodate lenses with up to 77mm or 82mm filter thread (wide angle might be a bit more limited, but I've used on a 17mm lens, full frame).

The Cokin Graduated Gray filters come in two or three strengths.... I think they are one stop, two stop and possibly three stop. I'd get the two stop version first, if buying only one filter. The one stop is probably the second most useful. With the Cokin system, you also need a filter holder and an adapter ring to attach it to the lens (58mm for your EF 50/1.4 and 62mm for your EF 100/2.8L macro).

Virtually all Graduated ND filters are uncoated. In fact, none that I know of have any coatings. Most are made of optical plastic. A few are made of optical glass, and cost more.

An ND filter is a completely different animal, serves an entirely different purpose than a Graduated ND filter. If that's what you want and need, the screw-in type of ND filters are great and a high quality one with multi-coating is available and recommended.... B+W MRC are one of the good quality brands.

The link the OP provided is for a graduated ND which I find to be troublesome at best to use when circular. The Cokin (as someone else suggested) or something similar offers much more versatility as you can slide the filter in the mount to suit the demarcation line for light to dark. Cokin was extremely popular in the 1980's and 1990's, dropped out of favor for awhile, but I think are finally making a comeback, at least here in the States.

I've used the free (from Google) Picasa editing program and it has a very user friendly electronic ND or GND filter function. You can control where the "filter" is centered, you can also control how light or dark and you can also control how gradual or sudden the change is (like "feathering" the transition from darker to lighter). you can also control the angle of the "filter's" effect - It if course has some limitations, but if you have a well exposed image to work with, it's really quite good and a lot easier to use than an actual filter because it's so much more versatile.

Best of all, it's free, so you can try it and see if it works for you. If not, no loss - if it does work, it will save you quite a bit of money and of course there's no need for step-up rings to use a filter with multiple lenses or any need to have several filters that fit without using rings (also no problem with vignetting on wider lenses).

I don't often use Picasa - I use PS CS5 and DPP and a couple of other programs much more often, but for replacing the need for graduated or ND filters, Picasa works very well for me.

Best of luck,
D.

I also think Cokin is the correct answer.

http://www.bhphotovide​o.com/c/product/387434​-REG/

Hey guys,

I'm now looking to make the move on the filters.

Regarding the B+W ND
http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …mm_106_Solid_Ne​utral.html

I'm about to purchase the 17-40 f/4L for a landscape lens, which has a 77mm filter size.
http://cameraparadise.​com …-f-4L-USM-Lenses-395.html

Looking at a local supplier, I have sourced the following filters. Would someone please be able to let me know if Hoya is of equivalent quality as B+W - and which of the filters is closest to the B+W listed:
http://www.camerasdire​ct.com.au …size=96&q=neutr​al+density

I'm planning a road trip next week and I doubt the stock could be shipped in time. I should get the lens in time, but for portrait shots, I'm feeling that these filters will add the kick that I need to get some really nice landscapes.

Regarding ND Grads - I've sourced the Cokin pack from a local supplier, for probably an equivalent price as posted earlier in this thread (once postage is included):
http://www.camerasdire​ct.com.au …y-graduated-filter-kit-nd

If I purchase this, I'm going to need adapters to mount my lenses I assume. The 17-40mm is 77mm, while my 50mm f/1.4 is 58mm, and my 100mm f/2.8L is 67mm. I can't find these on the camerasdirect.com.au website - but surely they would stock these wouldn't they? I hope they're cheap, but I'd plan on just getting the 77mm to begin with.

Not looking to overbuy - but wanting to make sure that these filters are quality & will be a good investment for my landscape photography.

Thanks guys.

The B+W 1.8 is a good, multi-coated six stop Neutral Density filter. This type filter is entirely a neutral gray coloring, to reduce the light received across the entire image. A typical usage of these is when shooting moving water, allowing you to slow down your shutter speed down so that the water will blur. Another common usage is by videographers who want to use large apertures for shallow depth of field in brighter lighting conditions (bigger than a low ISO and their slowest shutter speed will allow). If you need these or similar functions from a filter, B+W MRC are good quality.

17-40mm is a fine lens... primarily for full frame cameras. It will work, but is not particular wide on a crop camera.

You are using a crop sensor 550D (Rebel T2i in the US). For landscape photography I would suggest you instead consider a Canon EF-S 10-22mm, Tokina 12-24mm or some of the other ultrawide lenses made specifically for crop sensor cameras (in addition to the above, Sigma makes an 8-16mm and two different 10-20mm, Tokina makes an 11-16/2.8, Tamron makes a 10-24mm). I use the Tokina 12-24 and am quite impressed and happy with it. Of the other choices, I think the Canon 10-22 is the only one that's a bit superior in some respects (slightly wider, a little more flare resistant), though not in all respects (I like the build/feel of the Toki better, IQ is roughly the same except it has a little more tendency to flare, though still not bad... also it's got a non-variable f4 aperture, and it costs a lot less). If you go with the Canon 10-22, keep in mind that the lens hood is sold separately... all the others include the hood.

If your goal is to make really nice landscape shots... the very first filter I'd recommend is not cheap... Get a Circular Polarizer (often CPL or C-Pol). Get a B+W MRC, Kaesemann or "Nano/MRC",or a Hoya HMC or better, or one of the other higher quality. This will likely be your single most used filter, so is probably worth spending a bit more to get a really good one.

NOTE: For some reason, among the B+W CPLs linked above, the MRC is more expensive than the Kaesemann... usually it's the opposite because the Kaesemann is a slightly higher specification. The newer "nano" B+W are mostly equivalent, but with improved coatings that make them easier to clean... and more expensive. I've used both B+W CPL MRC and Kaesemann for years and they are fine. But, like many well and proplery multi-coated filters, a little hard to clean off finger prints, salty seawater and other slightly oily smudges (a good lens cleaning solution is needed).

Yes, the 17-40mm lens (which I don't recommend for your camera) uses a 77mm filter. So do the Canon 10-22 and the Tokina 12-24. Some of the other lenses metioned might use larger or slightly smaller diameter, you'd have to check (note: the Sigma 8-16mm cannot be fitted with a filter at all). I can tell you that the 17-40, 10-22 and 12-24 would not require a "slim" B+W CPL filter. This is partially because B+W filters all use a quite narrow frame already, so there's less chance of vignetting issues.

Get the CPL in the correct size for your most used landscape lens first. That's by far the most likely lens you'll want the CPL for and most likely type of subject where you will want to use it. (There are some uses for CPLs with portraiture, automotive, macro and other types of photography, but the uses are far more limited, less common than landscape/architecture​. So you are less likely to need a CPL for your other lenses, too. As far as the filters are concerned, too bad you got the 100L macro instead of the cheaper 100/2.8 USM... The more expensive 100L uses a bigger 67mm filter, while the 100/2.8 USM uses the same 58mm filters as your other two lenses. OTOH, it's nice that the 100L has IS, though it doesn't help a whole lot at higher magnifications.)

As to the graduated neutral density filters... I cannot tell from that website what size Cokin filters those are. Cokin makes four sizes (A, P, Z, X, see link for more info). You need at least the P series size for use with the lenses discussed above. The A series filters are too small. The P series accomodates lenses up to 82mm diameter filter threads. A kit like that with the holder and Graduated Gray filters in three different strengths is fine, but does not include the screw-in adapter that allows you to mount the filter holder to your lens (for example, assuming one of the above lenses you'd need a P-series, 77mm adapter).

There are also a couple options. The kit also doesn't include a lens hood (you can't use the Canon hood when the filter holder and filters are mounted). You might want to add one... Cokin's are modular and cheap. They just clip into place in front of the filter. I'd recommend getting a single unit for an UWA lens, but you might see some vignetting. Another inexpensive option is a lens cap... Cokin makes one that slides in front of the filter (and behind the hood), to protect lens and filter while it's on the camera. Might be a good precaution if carrying the camera around with the filter mounted on the lens.

When it comes to the graduated ND filters, for first time users I recommend the inexpensive Cokin (or similar...link to an even cheaper third party set that includes both Grads and full ND) to experiment and see if you want to use them regularly, then buy better quality in the strengths you find useful. None of these rectangular filters from any manufacturer are multi-coated. Most of them are optical plastic (much like eyeglasses or are used in some camera lenses). I think Tiffen makes a glass set.
The Cokin P and Z series sizes are good, too, because many other manufacturers make filters and other accessories to fit them (P size are 84mm wide filters, Z series are 100mm wide).

So, to recap... for use on crop camera, first I'd get either the Canon 10-22 or the Tokina 12-24/4 ultrawide angle lens. Next I would buy a high quality CPL filter for that landscape lens, before buying any Graduated Neutral Density. I cannot replicate some of the effects of the CPL in Photoshop, so a CPL is one filter I consider pretty essential. On the other hand, I can do in post processing almost anything a Grad ND does, often actually better than the filter does it. I also would not rush out to buy a 6-stop ND filter, just because I don't shoot video or plan to do any slow shutter/water blur shots any time soon.

Thank you very much for such a detailed reply Alan!

I wish there was an EF 10-22! The other lenses I bought were EF mount because I don't want to purchase any "redundant" lenses. I can see my lenses lasting me 10+ years (they better with the money I spent on them!) while the body won't last nearly as long. From my research the most likely move for me will be to a FF (probably a 5d3 by that stage), hence why I want to get the lenses that will do the job.

I really love the idea of the UWA of the 10-22 - so I'm kind of on the fence at the moment. wish I could replicate the extra angle with what I've got so I can give myself a comparative view - I guess the best I could do would be to compare 18 to say 25 or so on my kit lens and see the difference.

Bah, I should just throw the $$ out there and get a 5d3 - but I definitely can't justify that just yet, I've still got a lot to learn!

Thanks so much for your help Alan - very nice photos on flickr too btw. It seems as though the ND and ND Grad (I've got LR and have seen just how well it can replicate this filter) aren't essential to begin with. I've got a Hoya PL-CIR and a Marumi CPL - but they're both 58mm (and most likely of significantly less quality).