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Thread started 02 Jan 2013 (Wednesday) 11:30
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High ISO performance of 6D and 5Diii

 
ddk632
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Jan 03, 2013 11:30 |  #46

umphotography wrote in post #15439333 (external link)
Yup Yup Yup:rolleyes::lol::lol:
6D is a nice introduction camera with good ISO capabilities.....end of conversation. It is placed in canons line up where it should be. I have not tested the 6D but i will go out on a limb and say that It completely falls apart when compared against the 1Dx and 5D3 AF systems and what they are capable of doing......just a guess on my part:rolleyes:
,

Good guess on your part.

The question is, who in their right mind would enter a 6D into a competition against the 1DX and the 5DIII on where the judging is on AF. Why bother - it's a loss right from the start!

While I think the rest of your rant was spot on, I think you discredited yourself by taking a cheap shot based on something (AF capability) that is not even meant to be a feature of the 6D. The low light focusing capability, yes. But AF points and AI Servo tracking, not at all.

Just ranting back because if I enter the 1DX and the 5DIII into a wireless remote shooting competition with the 6D, they'd both lose, but it'd be a stupid competition for them to enter in.

I'd love a 1DX just to own a 1D series, it's been my dream camera for a long time (1D series, anyway) ... It's like dreaming of a Ferrari - I'm not going to race it, but I still want one! Regardless, I really love my 6D which I have in my hands and it does everything I (for my needs) need a camera to do, and even more. However, fast blazing AF was never on that list, for me.

The 6D wasn't meant to blow anything away. However it's been shown it has the "slight" ISO and DR advantage over a 5DII, the main "opponent" of this camera as I've seen here on POTN at least, and honestly everyone expected it to be much worse because it's an entry level "Rebel FF". I say these are a bonus, I never expected to have.

I did expect to have WiFi, GPS, and FF. I got those things and have found a lot about this camera that to me, based on my expectations, have been a bonus - and that's a good thing!


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Jan 03, 2013 11:42 |  #47

ddk632 wrote in post #15439382 (external link)
Good guess on your part.

The question is, who in their right mind would enter a 6D into a competition against the 1DX and the 5DIII on where the judging is on AF. Why bother - it's a loss right from the start!

While I think the rest of your rant was spot on, I think you discredited yourself by taking a cheap shot based on something (AF capability) that is not even meant to be a feature of the 6D. The low light focusing capability, yes. But AF points and AI Servo tracking, not at all.

Just ranting back because if I enter the 1DX and the 5DIII into a wireless remote shooting competition with the 6D, they'd both lose, but it'd be a stupid competition for them to enter in.

I'd love a 1DX just to own a 1D series, it's been my dream camera for a long time (1D series, anyway) ... It's like dreaming of a Ferrari - I'm not going to race it, but I still want one! Regardless, I really love my 6D which I have in my hands and it does everything I (for my needs) need a camera to do, and even more. However, fast blazing AF was never on that list, for me.

The 6D wasn't meant to blow anything away. However it's been shown it has the "slight" ISO and DR advantage over a 5DII, the main "opponent" of this camera as I've seen here on POTN at least, and honestly everyone expected it to be much worse because it's an entry level "Rebel FF". I say these are a bonus, I never expected to have.

I did expect to have WiFi, GPS, and FF. I got those things and have found a lot about this camera that to me, based on my expectations, have been a bonus - and that's a good thing!


I agree and i was trying to make a point. Nothing blows anything away anymore. Not even a 1Dx.

Please post your findings on how this 6D is gonna lock in low light with both servo and One shot use. There will be many wedding and event photogs that will be interested in this feature alone. We got along fine with the 5D2 on center point before the 5D3 came along. the -3EV is a big Hmmmmm:eek:... to say the least. The MKIV missed the boat with this feature. 5D2 locks great on the center point so if the 6D will locks on the outer points, it goes up in the performance category to many.....for me,, that's why i dropped the MKIV......poor servo in low light sucked with the MKIV...5D3 and 1Dx kicks butt here.....very interested on how this 6D does,,,not because i would get it now,,,but because it will likely be in the next 5D series update;)

Have fun with your new camera.


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TheLostVertex
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Jan 03, 2013 11:46 |  #48

Why are you people talking about AF and focus point numbers,, and stuff when the OP is doing astro photography? Take your pissing game some where else if you can not offer focused suggestions for for helping the OP do what he wants, in this case, get more noise free images and slower shutter times.

To the OP, there also is the option of building a cooler of some sort to help keep the sensor temp down. Some people have taken this very far building a peltier cooler straight onto the sensor, but you can just as easily wrap the camera body in a foam cooler with something to drop the temp down. The colder you get it, the more you will drop the noise. you can see the concept in practice here http://ghonis2.ho8.com​/rebelmod450d16c.html (external link) with some pretty impressive results.

I will also reiterate the usefulness of having a camera with no IR filter, or a modified IR filter(the 20D-a and 60d-a). it would drop the needed exposure time of many objects by a large amount(compared to ISO).


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ddk632
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Jan 03, 2013 11:49 |  #49

umphotography wrote in post #15439440 (external link)
I agree and i was trying to make a point. Nothing blows anything away anymore. Not even a 1Dx.

Please post your findings on how this 6D is gonna lock in low light with both servo and One shot use. There will be many wedding and event photogs that will be interested in this feature alone. We got along fine with the 5D2 on center point before the 5D3 came along. the -3EV is a big Hmmmmm:eek:... to say the least. The MKIV missed the boat with this feature. 5D2 locks great on the center point so if the 6D will locks on the outer points, it goes up in the performance category to many.....for me,, that's why i dropped the MKIV......poor servo in low light sucked with the MKIV...5D3 and 1Dx kicks butt here.....very interested on how this 6D does,,,not because i would get it now,,,but because it will likely be in the next 5D series update;)

Have fun with your new camera.

Cool :D

Will do - I've used it extensively and my most impressive time was being inside of the rides at Disney World, like the It's a Small World ride and the Little Mermaid ride, which are really dark inside, and was able to lock focus anywhere except in one place where it was just pitch black. I'm not sure how that translates to wedding photography, though :)


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Jan 03, 2013 12:00 |  #50

I can't really comment other then my experiences and what I wanted in a new Camera as it is what your after that counts, imho.

When I started I bought a 550D and thought it was amazing, be the first D-SLR and I invested over a few years in good selection of L-glass first, Which allowed me to take stunning images with the 550D. I looked at the 7D for ages, but it didn't really make sense to me, only thing I seemed to be buying into was a faster FPS and better AF, but noise was about the same (some argue a little worse) so I didn't see the point of upgrading, I started looking at full frame cameras such as the 5D Mark II and was a bloody good camera but still expensive, I Borrowed one and with the L-Glass i had was unreal, I was hooked on a full frame camera, BUT the AF system wasn't fast enough for the sports, would have been on par with the 550d but again, was I just upgrading for the sake of full frame ? Then I started to hear rumours that there was a 5D Mark III coming out and it ticked all the boxes I was looking for, had more then one cross type AF, shared the AF with higher model cameras, had great noise quality and over all was spot on..

As my plan before seeing the Mark iii was to get a 5D Mark II and get a 7D as a second body, between them where one lacked spec the other made up for it, so I would have a camera for any situation, the way I looked at it the 5D Mark III was a 5D mark II + 7D rolled into one, feature wise, so I could have one body that could do it all, and for kinda the same price as two.

That is how I made the choice, the 6D looks like a great camera, until I use it I will not cast an opinion on it on ISO performance ect, but I will say it seems a strange package to me, just seems like its only feature it boasts about is that it is full frame, that is great and useful but IMHO its a balance of everything in the camera, ISO, AF Speed/accuracy, features which makes it piratical.

This is just my opinion, Maybe if I didn't own a 5dmk3 I would have a different option, but it seems allot of money for just the fact its full frame, I think I would get myself a 5dmk2 second hand for less money if it was me...

I know the 5D Mark 3 is expensive, but it has the right balance of everything imho, in my mind it saved me having two bodies.

In along about way, don't focus on just one point of a camera, to me its like buying a race car for the looks but it only have a 3 cylinder 1.3 ltr engine.. looks great but doesn't really go fast at all. lol


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Jan 03, 2013 12:27 |  #51

TheLostVertex wrote in post #15439457 (external link)
Why are you people talking about AF and focus point numbers,, and stuff when the OP is doing astro photography? Take your pissing game some where else if you can not offer focused suggestions for for helping the OP do what he wants, in this case, get more noise free images and slower shutter times.

To the OP, there also is the option of building a cooler of some sort to help keep the sensor temp down. Some people have taken this very far building a peltier cooler straight onto the sensor, but you can just as easily wrap the camera body in a foam cooler with something to drop the temp down. The colder you get it, the more you will drop the noise. you can see the concept in practice here http://ghonis2.ho8.com​/rebelmod450d16c.html (external link) with some pretty impressive results.

I will also reiterate the usefulness of having a camera with no IR filter, or a modified IR filter(the 20D-a and 60d-a). it would drop the needed exposure time of many objects by a large amount(compared to ISO).

+1

I usually don't get sucked in to these debates but today it's different. Anyway I hope your post doesn't get lost in the shuffle because it is excellent advice,


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Jan 03, 2013 12:46 |  #52

ddk632 wrote in post #15439243 (external link)
Ok, I stand corrected.

I think the 5DII is an excellent camera, and have nothing negative to say about it. For me, those 3 things you mentioned are simply not important when choosing a camera, and the WiFi and GPS were important enough to let some other things slide (lack of 100% VF, for example).

I think you made a valid point... high ISO and multi shot are for different types of noise. One is for removing dark current noise and the other reduces shot noise by averaging several frames together (like stacking). Both are relevant to astro photography, but both are also likely to be done outside the camera. I think your point was relevant though.


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Jan 03, 2013 13:02 |  #53

The problems with slower flash sync, slower max shutter speed and lack of pc sync port are:

1. 1/180 sec vs 1/200 sec flash sync means that much more chance of subject motion blur/ghosting with moving subjects and that much more ambient light that always must be in the photo. Since many radio triggers do not sync quite as fast as the camera's claimed sync speed, so that becomes 1/160, 1/125 or even 1/100. This is where that really makes a big difference.

2. Daylight is where you need 1/8000. To get the same exposure, you will have to stop down the aperture. This is handy, but not the most important trait missing.

3. Pc sync plug...for when you want on-camera flash and off-camera flash without the extremely expensive speedlite 600s, a pc sync port on-camera is almost absolutely necessary. Why? The few eTTL pass-through radio triggers are made about the same and they can't handle the weight of a flash mounted on top for very long without the plastic cracking (personal experience). When they break, they have to be connected via pc sync. Other triggers that mount on the hot shoe with no pass-through capability simply don't allow you to use on-camera at the same time as off-camera flash unless you can plug the trigger into the pc sync port instead. This is the single most important missing piece.


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Jan 03, 2013 13:47 |  #54

I've never ever even considered using a pc synch, even in studio conditions its always with just a trigger.

If you need such a 'pro' level option buy a 5d3.


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Jan 03, 2013 13:52 |  #55

I shoot weddings and have been using pass-through and hot-shoe mounted radio triggers for years and experienced failures of pass-through triggers because the plastic is fragile. I find myself being thankful for a PC Sync port when I want on-camera fill and off-camera radio without buying $600 flashes that don't operate correctly on all Canon dSLRs. And I use off-camera lighting with on-camera fill extensively during receptions.

But that's just me.


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Jan 03, 2013 13:58 |  #56

If you shoot weddings then buy a 5dmkIII. Its simple.
The 6d isnt a pro camera in that respect.


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Jan 03, 2013 14:59 |  #57

RobDickinson wrote in post #15439924 (external link)
If you shoot weddings then buy a 5dmkIII. Its simple.
The 6d isnt a pro camera in that respect.



Umm, wrong. Do you shoot weddings? If not, how can you know what someone that does needs??

For me, the AF of the 5d3 is overkill. Again, that's for me. The 6D gives me just what I need, great high iso performance in low light. And it's at a price that works for me.




  
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Jan 03, 2013 15:16 as a reply to  @ Jason401's post |  #58

To the OP, both of the cameras above will do exceedingly well in high ISO situation over any other previous Canon EOS dslr. Someone mentioned about the 60DA for astro-photography. Might be worth checking it out.

What's with the internal sibling rivalry b/t the 2 cameras? I do not know why people want to proof their 6d over its 5d3 brethren. It's like owners of 60d trying to proof that its worth under the shadow of the 7d. Canon (and Nikon) obviously saw the market segment for an entry level FF and built the 6d (and d600). It's all good.
The 6d's arch rival is the d600.


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Jan 03, 2013 15:23 |  #59

Jason401 wrote in post #15440157 (external link)
Umm, wrong. Do you shoot weddings? If not, how can you know what someone that does needs??

For me, the AF of the 5d3 is overkill. Again, that's for me. The 6D gives me just what I need, great high iso performance in low light. And it's at a price that works for me.

I shoot weddings and I can say that the autofocus of the 5D3 is amazing. It flat out sucked with my 5D2 in lowlight AI Servo.


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Jan 03, 2013 15:36 |  #60

gh patriot wrote in post #15440241 (external link)
I shoot weddings and I can say that the autofocus of the 5D3 is amazing. It flat out sucked with my 5D2 in lowlight AI Servo.


No doubt. But the comparison is with the 6D. And not everyone shoots the same way. To me, AF isn't as (AS) a big deal as low light, high iso performance. The 6D excels in this area and gives me the tool I need to get the job done for the way I shoot. And it does it cheaper than the 5d3. So it is the right camera for me.

I really don't care what camera anyone uses, Canon, Nikon, etc. Use whatever works for you. It was just that specific comment that bugged me. Making a blanket statement for everyone is just wrong.




  
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High ISO performance of 6D and 5Diii
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