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Thread started 05 Jan 2013 (Saturday) 04:41
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5d1 and L lens good starting point?

 
ericm678
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Jan 05, 2013 04:41 |  #1

Hey guys, i only have 1 rebel t3 and a few older lenses, i'd really like to get a full frame such as the 5d. the l lens i was thinking about is the 17-40 f/4, i'd like to get everyones thoughts on the 1st gen 5d. is it a good platform for starting in full frame photography? or should i just wait and save thousands more to get the mkiii, i generally shoot at friends birthday parties and weddings and such, so i think the wide angle zoom would be nice for some nice, sharp group photos? i'm not new to photography, just have limited equipment :oops:


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Sirrith
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Jan 05, 2013 04:54 |  #2

The question I always ask is: why do you want FF?


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ericm678
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Jan 05, 2013 05:10 as a reply to  @ Sirrith's post |  #3

because a 1.6x crop sensor essentially makes a 50mm like a 70 or so from what i've heard, where a ff would give the exact focal length. and i don't think an l lens would work too well with the rebel series as some lenses are meant for ff right?


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jaomul
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Jan 05, 2013 05:18 |  #4

Your wrong and right. Ff lenses will work on crop sensor cameras. A good lens will always produce better results. Does it matter if a 50mm lens is actually giving a field of view of 80mm on your camera. Can you not more cheaply buy lenses to suit your needs. A 5d would be an improvement on your T3 but you may not need it. Also 17-40 is very limiting unless you like to always shoot wide. I suggest you buy a focal length you need that works on your t3 but also on Ff should you need to upgrade at some stage. To me upgrading because 50 on Ff doesn't equal 50 on a crop is a waste of money


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ericm678
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Jan 05, 2013 05:27 as a reply to  @ jaomul's post |  #5

oh ok i see what your saying thanks for the help


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ericm678
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Jan 05, 2013 05:29 as a reply to  @ ericm678's post |  #6

i'm sorry mabye i was mislead haha


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LowriderS10
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Jan 05, 2013 05:31 as a reply to  @ ericm678's post |  #7

ericm678 wrote in post #15447186 (external link)
because a 1.6x crop sensor essentially makes a 50mm like a 70 or so from what i've heard, where a ff would give the exact focal length. and i don't think an l lens would work too well with the rebel series as some lenses are meant for ff right?

It would be much simpler to just by something like a 30mm lens, which will give you a roughly 50mm (on FF) field of view...all EF and EF-S lenses work on crop sensor cameras...this means you have an absolute smorgasbord of options.

Also, you gain 1 stop of depth of field with a crop camera...while this is a disadvantage in some situations, in the situation you mentioned (group photos) this is actually an advantage, as it still lets you shoot at a fast aperture when needed (ie: low light situations) and "gain" that extra stop of DOF, helping you make sure everyone is in focus.

The 5Dc is an excellent camera...the question is, is it the RIGHT camera for you?


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LowriderS10
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Jan 05, 2013 05:35 |  #8

Also, the 17-40L isn't really that big of a deal...it's slow and isn't all that sharp in the corners. I had one and I was only impressed with it stopped down.

If you want really wide, you can get a Tokina 11-16 for your camera, which is an f2.8, and will give you a roughly 17-26mm field of view, OR you can get a Canon 17-55 f2.8 IS, or a Tamron 17-50 f2.8 VC if you want something wide, fast and very versatile on your cropper. Any of these choices would shine for your applications. (More so than the 17-40L, which is, in my opinion, too slow to truly rely on for birthday parties, weddings, etc...I know people use it for those applications, but in those situations faster is better...and f4 isn't fast).


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michgirl
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Jan 05, 2013 05:51 |  #9

When I went from my Rebel T1i to FF, I was amazed at the difference. There is more detail in the photos, higher ISO capabilities, better color, more depth. It was worth it to me and I am just a grandma that loves taking pictures. When I was debating last year about upgrading, trying to decide between the 60d, 7d and 5 D II, someone posted "there is a reason it costs more" - which said, of course it is a better camera. And it is. No regrets transitioning to FF.


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ericm678
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Jan 05, 2013 05:57 as a reply to  @ LowriderS10's post |  #10

awesome, i'm taking a look at some sample images from some of the lenses you discussed and most were taken on crop sensored cameras, and they look phenomenal. mabye i should save the 5d for later down the road, as it is a great camera. i don't need it to produce good images. is the autofocus somewhat quick on these lenses too? with weddings and b-day parties it's about capturing it when you get the reaction of a child opening their favorite present or when the bride tosses the bouquet of flowers etc. not to come off as offensive but have you used some of these lenses? if so how do they perform?


"Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist" --Pablo Picasso
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ericm678
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Jan 05, 2013 05:59 as a reply to  @ ericm678's post |  #11

the reason why is because i found on amazon a 5d1 is only about 600 bucks, but it's used and i'm not sure what the shutter count is on them :confused:


"Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist" --Pablo Picasso
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LowriderS10
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Jan 05, 2013 06:34 |  #12

michgirl wrote in post #15447244 (external link)
When I went from my Rebel T1i to FF, I was amazed at the difference. There is more detail in the photos, higher ISO capabilities, better color, more depth. It was worth it to me and I am just a grandma that loves taking pictures. When I was debating last year about upgrading, trying to decide between the 60d, 7d and 5 D II, someone posted "there is a reason it costs more" - which said, of course it is a better camera. And it is. No regrets transitioning to FF.

What camera did you trade up from? If you're coming from an XT/XTi/XS/etc, yeah, it'll be a huge difference. But he has a Rebel T3i, which has an amazing processor/sensor...goi​ng from that to a 5Dc may not be as impressive. Don't get me wrong, I fell in love with my 5Dc, but it's not for everyone. He'd lose video, the amazing, screen, the more modern UI, etc...I quickly upgraded to the 5D2 for those reasons...

ericm678 wrote in post #15447256 (external link)
awesome, i'm taking a look at some sample images from some of the lenses you discussed and most were taken on crop sensored cameras, and they look phenomenal. mabye i should save the 5d for later down the road, as it is a great camera. i don't need it to produce good images. is the autofocus somewhat quick on these lenses too? with weddings and b-day parties it's about capturing it when you get the reaction of a child opening their favorite present or when the bride tosses the bouquet of flowers etc. not to come off as offensive but have you used some of these lenses? if so how do they perform?

ericm678 wrote in post #15447260 (external link)
the reason why is because i found on amazon a 5d1 is only about 600 bucks, but it's used and i'm not sure what the shutter count is on them :confused:

$600 for a 5Dc isn't roughly the going rate, perhaps even a bit on the high side of things...you won't miss out by passing on it. Focus will be the same...your Rebel basically has the same focus system as the 5Dc/5D Mark II. In fact, it's better on your Rebel because the points are better spread out, due to the smaller sensor.

You're not being offensive at all, that's a very valid question...I've not only used, but owned pretty much every lens we have talked about (with the exception of the Canon 17-55 2.8, which is incredibly well rated).

The Tokina is an amazing lens, sharp, fast, and incredible AF.
The Tamron was excellent, though I had an older version with an accurate, but annoyingly loud focus motor. The new VC version is supposed to have that fixed (though I haven't used that lens yet).
The Sigma 10-20 had blazing fast focus (I didn't mention it above, but if you want wide on a crop it's worth considering). The new version of this lens is a constant f3.5, making it a third of a stop faster than the 17-40L...not a huge difference, but it's worth mentioning.
There is also the Canon 10-22, which I haven't mentioned/owned, but it's been a consistently well respected lens.
I owned the 17-40L and sold it because it simply didn't impress me in any way. It was a good lens...but not a great lens.

Check out my gear list (including my "sold" section), and feel free to ask any questions about any of the lenses and I'll do my best to answer them :)


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zarray
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Jan 05, 2013 07:53 |  #13

more than just a starting point, I think it will leave you spoilt and wanting more!
The 5Dc sensor has amazing clarity with just 12mp.


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Sirrith
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Jan 05, 2013 08:03 |  #14

ericm678 wrote in post #15447186 (external link)
because a 1.6x crop sensor essentially makes a 50mm like a 70 or so from what i've heard, where a ff would give the exact focal length. and i don't think an l lens would work too well with the rebel series as some lenses are meant for ff right?

Part in bold tells me you don't need FF. :)

What you need to understand is that all this "equivalent FOV/focal length" nonsense is completely irrelevant to you unless you already own a FF camera alongside a crop camera, or have been using a FF camera (or 35mm film camera) before getting your current crop DSLR. Disregard the following paragraph if you do shoot 35mm film.

The important thing for you is to know what lens you need to achieve the things you want. E.g. if you want a fast, normal prime, then you want a sigma 30 1.4 or a canon 28 1.8. If you want a short telephoto for portraits, the nifty fifty is perfect. If you want an ultra-wide angle, the 10-22 is potentially the one for you.


As for the L lenses on crop, they most certainly do work and I am of the opinion that L lenses on crop are not a waste in the majority of cases. L lenses are held in high regard due to multiple characteristics:
-build quality
-fast AF
-great optics
All of these will benefit you whether you shoot an APS-C or FF DSLR. Of course, there are situations where a non-L lens will be the better choice, for example a 17-55 2.8 IS vs the 17-40 f4 L. although here the L still retains the advantages of build quality and weather sealing which may matter on certain crop DSLRs (though not yours).

When I upgraded to FF, I didn't care about the "FF" part. I still don't. What I did, and do, care about was getting a camera that would give me better ISO performance, better AF, better ergonomics, and weather sealing. It just so happened that the 5DIII was the only camera which gave me all of these in one reasonably sized package. If the 7D had a couple of stops better ISO performance, I may very well have gone for it instead and saved my bank balance from a bit of a shock. But it didn't.

What I'm trying to get at is; don't buy into the hype, there are plenty of people on here for whom your money is no issue and who will recommend you buy many thousands of $$ worth of equipment. You'll know what upgrade path you need to take once you hit the limits of your current gear, whether it be lenses or body, or both. And whether you can justify the upgrade costs to get past those limitations.


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LowriderS10
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Jan 05, 2013 08:11 |  #15

Sirrith wrote in post #15447449 (external link)
Part in bold tells me you don't need FF. :)

What you need to understand is that all this "equivalent FOV/focal length" nonsense is completely irrelevant to you unless you already own a FF camera alongside a crop camera, or have been using a FF camera (or 35mm film camera) before getting your current crop DSLR. Disregard the following paragraph if you do shoot 35mm film.

The important thing for you is to know what lens you need to achieve the things you want. E.g. if you want a fast, normal prime, then you want a sigma 30 1.4 or a canon 28 1.8. If you want a short telephoto for portraits, the nifty fifty is perfect. If you want an ultra-wide angle, the 10-22 is potentially the one for you.


As for the L lenses on crop, they most certainly do work and I am of the opinion that L lenses on crop are not a waste in the majority of cases. L lenses are held in high regard due to multiple characteristics:
-build quality
-fast AF
-great optics
All of these will benefit you whether you shoot an APS-C or FF DSLR. Of course, there are situations where a non-L lens will be the better choice, for example a 17-55 2.8 IS vs the 17-40 f4 L. although here the L still retains the advantages of build quality and weather sealing which may matter on certain crop DSLRs (though not yours).

When I upgraded to FF, I didn't care about the "FF" part. I still don't. What I did, and do, care about was getting a camera that would give me better ISO performance, better AF, better ergonomics, and weather sealing. It just so happened that the 5DIII was the only camera which gave me all of these in one reasonably sized package. If the 7D had a couple of stops better ISO performance, I may very well have gone for it instead and saved my bank balance from a bit of a shock. But it didn't.

What I'm trying to get at is; don't buy into the hype, there are plenty of people on here for whom your money is no issue and who will recommend you buy many thousands of $$ worth of equipment. You'll know what upgrade path you need to take once you hit the limits of your current gear, whether it be lenses or body, or both. And whether you can justify the upgrade costs to get past those limitations.

Well said...people think that going from a P&S to a DSLR, from a crop to FF, from a 5D to a Leica is an automatic improvement...it's not.

I think the OP would be much better served with some lenses and a lot of time behind the camera than the jump to a 5Dc.


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5d1 and L lens good starting point?
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