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FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Motorsports 
Thread started 08 Jan 2013 (Tuesday) 09:59
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ROAR Before the 24 - Daytona

 
TRhoads
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Jan 08, 2013 13:00 |  #16

I love that stuff...but you have to have good rapport with the people to get in their face like that...I know you are probably friends with all of those people, so you have an advantage.


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John ­ Thawley
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Jan 08, 2013 13:03 |  #17

AZAlphaDog wrote in post #15461717 (external link)
I know this is not going to be very popular but, I gotta say John, I have been very disappointed with your last few posts. Reading your article on the photoshelter blog about motorsports photography and looking at some of your extensive back catalog of images from years past I kinda feel cheated by some of the post here. The images lack that dynamic lighting, inspirational composition, and the story telling abilities I have come to expect from a set of John Thawley images.

Really, simple panning shots? Cars center in an image, really? John, are you having an intern post your seconds or even thirds for you?

I'm sorry if my expectations are so high from you but, you set the bar very high with your article and some of the images I have seen on your website.

I understand when you get flat-light and cloudy days you will not get that magical light and working with nighttime racing leaves little opportunity to "chase the light" as it were but in the past even in the worst of conditions your images did not disappoint.

Honestly eight panning shots wherein almost every one the car is basically centered in the frame and it kind of makes me feel like you are just practicing panning and these aren't even your best panning shots.

I'm sorry, but I expect so much more quality and variety from you that this set feels like a bit of an afterthought.

Hey... if that's how you feel, you're entitled to your opinion.

However, your comment "Really, simple panning shots? Cars center in an image, really? John, are you having an intern post your seconds or even thirds for you?" is simply rude and ridiculous.

Like I said... you're entitled to your opinion and if you have genuine technical suggestions, I'm happy to listen.

JT


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Jan 08, 2013 13:59 |  #18

John Thawley wrote in post #15461765 (external link)
Hey... if that's how you feel, you're entitled to your opinion.

However, your comment "Really, simple panning shots? Cars center in an image, really? John, are you having an intern post your seconds or even thirds for you?" is simply rude and ridiculous.

Like I said... you're entitled to your opinion and if you have genuine technical suggestions, I'm happy to listen.

JT

Well color me rude and ridiculous, I'm OK with that.

Most, if not all internet forums will be filled with people who will sing your praises until the cows come home and plant their lips so far up your backside they will be tickling your tonsils. Me, not so much.

Go back and look at your first 8 images and tell me they really give you a "sense of place" as to which track or which year they were taken . . .

"Don’t get wrapped up in always shooting tight or full frame on the car. Remember, ultimately, your viewer will want to know where this is all taking place. So, while that new Audi Prototype looks cool and the look in the driver’s eyes is intense, where is this happening? Is this a race? Is it any track USA? Can I tell from your photo that it’s Long Beach, Road Atlanta or historic Sebring?"

Does any of this sound familiar to you?


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dinanm3atl
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Jan 08, 2013 16:48 as a reply to  @ AZAlphaDog's post |  #19

TRhoads wrote in post #15461722 (external link)
I don't see how you guys do those...I can go down to 1/30, occasionally 1/20...but 1/10, I get nothing usable...no matter how much I work at it. And I have worked at it...

Have to experiment and try. First time will you nail it? Probably not. I have stuff down to 1/5 of a second. Obviously will have throw away images from the set and attempts. It can be discouraging trying to get a certain image but keep at it and enjoy the attempts... or the 'ride' :)

TRhoads wrote in post #15461750 (external link)
I love that stuff...but you have to have good rapport with the people to get in their face like that...I know you are probably friends with all of those people, so you have an advantage.


Run through the 8 people images again and you will notice they are candids. Only one shot is a 'fun' image that required any type of rapport. John is very good at the candid photos of people/pits. This normally leads to better photos and better end results.

Don't be afraid to go for candids. Use the available light in the pits at night. Enjoy the challenge of creating a mood.


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John ­ Thawley
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Jan 08, 2013 17:13 |  #20

dinanm3atl wrote in post #15462792 (external link)
Run through the 8 people images again and you will notice they are candids. Only one shot is a 'fun' image that required any type of rapport. John is very good at the candid photos of people/pits. This normally leads to better photos and better end results.

Don't be afraid to go for candids. Use the available light in the pits at night. Enjoy the challenge of creating a mood.

While many drivers might "recognize" me, the only two I actually "know" (in this group) are Alan McNish and Scott Sharp. But these were all candid ... other than saying "Max!" to get him to look up..... he was holding a die cast looking down. I grabbed the shot as he looked up to see who called his name.

The Scott Sharp image required a lot of waiting.

I like to get in close with a 50mm prime or my Leica. But with a 70-200mm, you can lay back a bit and zoom in to go tight. Always try and use an open aperture... F/3.5 is good. I try to shoot wide open (including f1.4 on my 50mm) but prepare yourself for focusing issues and misses.

But Halston is right... Be polite and patient and get in there and do it. They realize you're doing a job.


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Jan 08, 2013 22:42 |  #21

Unfair, amazing skills on the track and shooting people ? Share some of the talent pool their my friend !

So there isnt a ton of motorsport up here but I think I will start with the local autocross clubs and grow from there. Thanks for the responses.


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TRhoads
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Jan 09, 2013 05:53 |  #22

John Thawley wrote in post #15462900 (external link)
But Halston is right... Be polite and patient and get in there and do it. They realize you're doing a job.

I think this is more important, that the drivers/crew etc realize you are just working, everytime I have tried to do pit lane stuff the people always stop when the camera is pointed at them.


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Jamie ­ Holladay
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Jan 09, 2013 11:23 |  #23

JT nice set of images. I especially like your set of candids. You are a great photog to learn from and trust me I have, thanks.

AZAlphaDog. As I said when I first started soothing I learned a lot from JT and others. However, when "displeased" with a shot from them where I wanted to know "why that is a good shot" I always asked with respect and replied with respect. I think this is something you should consider.


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John ­ Thawley
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Jan 09, 2013 13:57 |  #24

A few more...


  1. http://www.sportscarin​sider.com …88.jpg?pictureI​d=17231419 (external link)

  2. http://www.sportscarin​sider.com …10.jpg?pictureI​d=17231374 (external link)

  3. http://www.sportscarin​sider.com …12.jpg?pictureI​d=17231402 (external link)

  4. http://www.sportscarin​sider.com …39.jpg?pictureI​d=17231397 (external link)

  5. http://www.sportscarin​sider.com …53.jpg?pictureI​d=17231405 (external link)

  6. http://www.sportscarin​sider.com …06.jpg?pictureI​d=17231379 (external link)

  7. http://www.sportscarin​sider.com …78.jpg?pictureI​d=17231394 (external link)

  8. http://www.sportscarin​sider.com …44.jpg?pictureI​d=17231364 (external link)

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Jan 09, 2013 17:33 |  #25

Awesome!....This will be my first Rolex in a few weeks. We've been to the Daytona 500 about a dozen times and spoke about attending for a few years. A few weeks ago we booked flights and bought tickets.... if I can come away with a thimble of those captures I'll be in heaven. I've read your article a few weeks ago JT...I'll give it my best. Thank you for posting.


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Jan 09, 2013 18:38 |  #26

Fantastic work, Sir, and thanks so much for the expert tips !

This should be a Sticky

bw!


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Jan 11, 2013 07:12 |  #27

Great work again John! I must have seen you at the Petit Le Mans pit area - I doubt there were many other photos holding a Leica at the time! :)


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Flappy ­ Panchino
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Jan 12, 2013 22:05 |  #28

Amazing pics, #3 of the first set really grabs me. I love the behind the scenes, pits pictures.




  
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Jan 12, 2013 23:52 |  #29

John Thawley wrote in post #15461679 (external link)
I like to use the lower center grouping for the most part. The lower group will force you to keep the lens up and push the car lower in the frame... where it belongs. :)

Sometimes, if I'm after something that's harder to track, I'll go to the center group since the autofocus is a bit quicker and weighted more to the middle.

BTW... I just checked the focus point on the GAINSCO car shot (#2). That shot seemed to be caught just between the front wheel and A pillar... so right along that imaginery line I was talking about. That was with my 500mm at 1/30th sec. ... so I'm sure I was scrambling to keep up with it. LOL

John, I’ve read your article and been practicing for quite a while now. Are you hand-holding the 500mm at 1/30th? My arms get tired and shaky after a day with my 100-400mm on my 7D. I cannot imagine lasting a day with an extra 4 or 5 pounds of glass, I guess I need to head to the gym. Do you ever use a monopod while panning? I’ve tried it and cannot get the hang of using one to pan. Thanks for any insight you can share.


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Jan 13, 2013 00:34 |  #30

Candid portraits of athletes is easier said that done. That is one thing I am doing more.


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